Planning application cost

[chocccie]

Does anybody know what the cost is in 87?

Also, does this cost apply to a whole project or is it per building to be renovated.

The rule applying to needing an architect for buildings over so many sq metres of space ... is this per building, or per project.  ie if I have two or three buildings each under the limit, can they be put in together for permission. 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="chocccie"]

Does anybody know what the cost is in 87?

Also, does this cost apply to a whole project or is it per building to be renovated.

The rule applying to needing an architect for buildings over so many sq metres of space ... is this per building, or per project.  ie if I have two or three buildings each under the limit, can they be put in together for permission. 

[/quote]

Application costs are nil.

170SqM rule applies to the whole of the finished building. If you have 3 seperate buildings, they will require 3 seperate applications, regardless of the size, unless you plan to combine them.

[chocccie]

Thanks for the info Nick.

 

Re the cost ... I read (on this forum I think), that there is a charge for renovating buildings ... something to do with environmental impact charge if I remember correctly.  Is there no such charge?

Thanks again

[Caussenarde]

You will need a Permit de Construire as follows:

Travaux sur les constructions existantes

Les travaux sur constructions existantes sont en principe

non soumis à permis de construire. 

Un permis de construire est notamment exigé pour

: 

• l'agrandissement d'un bâtiment lorsque l'opération vise à

  créer plus de 20m² de (SHOB). C'est le cas par exemple lorsque le projet de
  construction nécessite la création de niveaux supplémentaires à l'intérieur du
  logement, augmentant ainsi la surface habitable, 

• le changement de destination d'une construction (par

  exemple le changement d'un local commercial en local d'habitation) lorsque ces
  travaux sont accompagnés d'une modification de la structure porteuse ou de la
  façade du bâtiment, 

• la modification du volume de l'habitation lorsque

  l'opération nécessite de percer ou d'agrandir une ouverture sur un mur
  extérieur.

You will need an Architect if the total Nett Surface Habitable is already 170m2, or will be 170m2 when finished.  This area includes the house and habitable areas in all its dependancies (ie barns, gites)

The form itself is at http://www.urbanisme.equipement.gouv.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=302 the

second one down, ie the Formulaire.

 

Then you will find information regarding an

architect in The Notice d'Information, on the same page. It says you do not need

an architect to submit your plans provided that the new total surface of your

works, including the old surface, is less than 170m2 :

Une extension de construction à usage autre

qu’agricole dont la surface de plancher hors oeuvre nette, cumulée à la surface

existante, n’excède pas 170 mètres

carrés

Hope this helps

[Clair]

The new rules are explained here: http://www.urbanisme.equipement.gouv.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=233

Your mairie should be your first port of call. They will advise you and give you the relevant paperwork, according to what you tell them.

[Victor Meldrew]

Does it depend on which department you are in?

Here in 37 we applied for permission on two seperate buildings under one application, this was passed and about two months after the consent was given we received a bill from the Tresor Public for Euros 2600 and odd. Yes two thousand six hundred and odd. 

This equated to approx Euros 53.00 per square metre, but was payable in two instalments, one 18 months after the issue of the bill and the second 18 months after the 1st instalment.

Hope this is of assistance.

Regards

Victor

[Michael]

 Here in Eure i have just paid the first of two instalments of 860 euros for the consent. Regards  Michael. 

[BJSLIV]

The confusion arises because though, unlike the UK, there is no charge for submitting a planning application, a one=off charge is applied for the grant of planning permission where additional habitable space is created. So if you are simply renovating an existing building no charge will be incurred. However if you are converting a property, and thereby adding habitable space, in most places a charge will be applied.

The cost isn't really significant, its just that people often don't expect it!

 

 

 

[Gyn_Paul]

The worst part, - sorry, the second worst part (the first being - as you said - that you don't expect to be hit with yet another bill for absolutely no reason out of the blue) is the  l-o-n-g  period they give you to pay it, with the prospect of no further reminder. I think mine falls due in a further 18 months! Sufficient time for me to not only lose the form, but also to forget about it completely.

p

[Wilko]

Gyn Paul.....Not correct you are sent a reminder 6 weeks before each payment is due.

BIJSLIV 

"The cost isn't really significant, its just that people often don't expect it!"

Well Victor paid 2600 euros and we paid something similar..............if that isn't significant you are obviously a very rich man !

regards

Wilko

 

[BJSLIV]

At the typical rate TLE rate of 2%, in order to pay 2600 Euros one is probably creating something like 170 additional square metres of habitable space.

For the whole project 2600 Euros is probably less than 2% of the total cost, unless it's a low cost conversion.

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Wilko"]

Gyn Paul.....Not correct you are sent a reminder 6 weeks before each payment is due.

BIJSLIV 

"The cost isn't really significant, its just that people often don't expect it!"

Well Victor paid 2600 euros and we paid something similar..............if that isn't significant you are obviously a very rich man !

regards

Wilko

 

[/quote]

phew !

I can take this yellowing notification off the notice board then.

p

[Victor Meldrew]

It was not a case that Euros 2600 was a lot to pay out for the planning permission, it was the fact that having read various threads on forums such as this one where people tell you that there is no charge for planning etc, it comes as a bit of a shock to get such a large bill which you had not budgeted for. 

Victor 

[Golfclan]

I'm building a 136sq m house in the Var and the planning fee is €5530. Extortionate!

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Golfclan"]I'm building a 136sq m house in the Var and the planning fee is €5530. Extortionate!

[/quote]

Is it? Surely you knew about the cost before you started building so how is it extortion?

BTW the OP asked for application costs (as in the UK planning application fees, I assumed), which are still zero. As in, if you don't build the building, you don't pay the fee...

[Golfclan]

Knowledge of the fee beforehand and whether one considers it extortionate are two different things. 

I regard it as extortionate as obviously one needs planning permission and one is therfore obligated to pay whatever planning fee they levy.  My objection is to the scale of the fee €5530 which I regard as unjustified. 

Maybe you Nick can provide an appropriate justification, which does not rely on an argument along the lines that they are charging that fee because they can charge such a level of fee!

[BJSLIV]

I assume that you are being charged the rate which applies to a maison secondaire.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Golfclan"]

Maybe you Nick can provide an appropriate justification, which does not rely on an argument along the lines that they are charging that fee because they can charge such a level of fee!

[/quote]

Eh? I can't justify it, as it is unreasonable. But, it is not extortion and it is unavoidable. The point is, you accepted the charge and you cannot do anything about it, I'm afraid.

[BJSLIV]

One can argue as to whether it it right to charge an additional levy on maison secondaire, but the basis idea of charging a tax to finance;

1 Civic infrastructure

2  Maintenance of important open spaces

3 The cost of the planning department

Which is levied on new works of construction, seems to me to be as valid a basis for taxation as any, and probably fairer than some!

Its in the ame vein as the E106 contributions levied on developers in the UK.

[Golfclan]

No - the house will be my main residence - I'm moving to France once it is built.

[Victor Meldrew]

Since when were the two rates for planning fees?

We were never asked if it was maison principal or secondaire, we were just sent the facture.

Victor

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Victor Meldrew"]

Since when were the two rates for planning fees?

We were never asked if it was maison principal or secondaire, we were just sent the facture.

Victor

[/quote]

There isn't. I think that BJ was putting forward an argument as to why there should be!

[BJSLIV]

Strangely enough there are higher rates for secondaires, though they rarely seem to be imposed. I suspect that in practice it is only applied to holiday villages, Pierre et Vacance style, ie properties that could only be used as secondaires.

The way these taxes are calculated is that there is a notional price given to every square metre of added space.

For 2008 this is 350 Euros for the first 80 sq metres, 512 Euros for the next 90 , and 672 Euros for the rest. Secondaires are be charged at 672Euros  for every square metre.

For a typical 169 sq metre house you have a value of (80*250 +89*512) = 73568 which is taxed at whatever rate is applied locally typically 2%, but potentially as high as 5%.

So Golfclan must be having something large built, and/or picked a high taxing area!

Houses come into categories 5, 7 or 8 of the attached price list

http://www.collectivites.vienne.equipement.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/note_constructeurs_TLE_cle7ae1e4.pdf

 

 

 

[BIG MAC]

Secondaires E672 per metre! I hope not or I am looking for E6,720 which is ludicrous. I am maintaining housing stock which otherwise would have been ruin. Paying all my local taxation and utilities, TAV on just about every thing and putting work into the local economy.

[Golfclan]

Thanks for the information.

My house will be my main residence when I move to France next June.

The habitable area is 136.12 sq m, an auvent of 37.92, porche of 2.45, terrasse of 18.8 and a garage of 31.36 sq m.

The plot is 1598 sq m and has a SHON of 149 sq m.

They put my house in category 7 and said the hors oeuvre nette taxable was 149 sq m.  The rate it attracts is 4% at a charge of 640 m sq.

I wonder should my house no be in catagory 5?

Any advice would be appreciated.