External soil pipes

[thunderhorse]

I understand that fitting WC soil pipes to the exterior of houses is a bit of a no-no, but can't find any relevant info. Is this an urban myth, or can someone point me to the relevant information?

Cheers, peeps.

[Anton Redman]

Have a walk through an old French town and a new development they are all internal. I cannot provide chapter and verse to NFs

[Chancer]

My building (an ex bar/hotel) had external soil pipes but they had been enclosed with a wooden structure clad in zinc and filled with insulation that only served to shelter millions of ants.

I have removed them to run them inside the building, I dont know whether it is a norme but it is very rare to see them outside and never on the front of buildings.

I was told it was bad practice as a dripping tap would soon cause a frozen blockage in winter, hence the insulation that I found in mine.

I got 21 euros at the scrapyard for the 30kg of zinc.

I suspect that they can be external but have to be thermally and more importantly mechanically protected, as there are no soilpipe equivalents of "dauphins" (a section of cast iron down pipe for use where it discharges on the trottoir) then boxing in would be necessary.

[Nick Trollope]

I don't think it is "normes" issue, more of a planning/convention one. ie. It doesn't happen, so nobody applies for permission, so it becomes abnormal, and the authorities refuse those who apply....

[Danny]

If one is not on mains drainage and has a fosse septique, it has been recommended (to me by the local waste syndicat person who came to inspect our fosse) that there is a vent to avoid the build up of corrosive gases in the fosse. Of course, this can get smelly so probably a good idea to vent away from the house, maybe even up past the roof... It is not a soil pipe just a vent for the fosse...

As far as freezing goes, that is a bit strange. I have lived in some very cold parts of the UK and other countries where external pipies are normal and waste pipes don't get full enough to freeze anywhere if they are installed properly. All waste pipes should be installed so that waste water runs and doesn't sit there. No water = no expansion = no pipe damage from freezing. Any external plastic pipes should not be rigidly glued as they can and will expand/contract. I believe that is normally why all external drainage pipes are the ones with extruded joints at one end.

Danny

PS I am not a plumber nor do I have any real idea of the normes relating to external pipes in France - just some observations.

[BIG MAC]

Looking at our house it seems that the concept of putting a lintel above the SVP as it passes through masonry is also an alien idea. Hence why our bathroom was a bit pongy till we realised the UPVC pipe was acting as a not very strong lintel.

[tarncat]

We were told that the issue is not with freezing but with sun damage cracking the pipes.

Does anyone actually have an external soil pipe who could tell us how it has survived over time?

[Chancer]

Mine was covered and insulated so cannot be used as a guide.

Re UV protection the 125mm soil pipe and fittings are the same plastic as gutters and downpipes which dont seem to suffer from the sun.

For me impact damage and vandalism were the reasons that I wanted them inside, freezing was also an issue as the insulated housing was an eyesore.

The conditions where my pipes would have frozen (had they been left outside) were if one of the tenants left a tap running or dripping or a leaking GDS on a BDC, a long icycle woud form where the soil pipe made its 87 degree downturn which would eventually block the pipe, with several other logements on upper floors it was really not worth taking the risk.

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

tarncat,

While it's not actually a SVP (it's a fosse vent pipe), ours is in 100mm +  bit (say 110mm) grey plastic with joints every 2 metres and extends 8m vertically up the south side of the house. It's been there since the refurb in 1986 and has now probably faded to a paler grey. It works, isn't cracked and does the job. It also hides the satellite TV cable which I have fixed to the back and tied with cable ties.

[Jo]

Both my soil pipe and the vent pipe are external, again they are plastic which has faded to a pale grey. The conversion of the upstairs was done in the early 1980's so they have been there since then. Don't know whether it is a factor, but it is a south facing wall.[8-)]

[thunderhorse]

Thanks for the responses to date. All other considerations aside, so far there is nothing to indicate that any form of permission is required in order to site soil pipes externally. Is that correct?

Cheers.

[dragonrouge]

Hi we live in a Batiment of France village and in one of the bathrooms next to our bedroom there is a bidet but not a wc and with the wc being at the end of the corridor the other side of the house.

Our plumbers to a man have said no to external pipes and with the only way forward being a macerater.  Now in a country hotel in the UK I have seen old fashioned maceraters which seemed to go into gear when one entered the room?

Please does anyone have up to date experience of modern day maceraters and we really do not like them per se and just wondered how we could go about installing conventional soil pipes.

The pipes would be at the back of the house and on a private road.

This is penned by someone who knows nothing about such matters!

rdgs

[Jo]

The only experience I have of them in France is as a user![:$] and I found it incredibly noisy! When I had an additional WC fitted in UK I was advised against having one fitted as when they block, which they do, it is incredibly messy[+o(] unless I wanted to use it just for spending pennies[blink] I was advised to have a proper drain dug,  which  I did. By the way, the one I used in France was a new one!

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

dragonrouge, it can be very difficult to run a 100mm ish waste pipe with the correct fall through a house to a suitable exit point - but not impossible. Sometimes you can hide the pipe in the depth of the wooden first floor, even it it means lowering the ceiling below a bit. You can lift the pan on a bit of a plinth (throne if you like!) to allow for the bend and give fall where needed. You can also "box-in" where the pipe goes through a room and fill the casing with insulation to keep flushes quiet. The box becomes a shelf or some such thing. You can also make built-in cupboards which although handy for storage are really there just to hide the pipe. Maybe even build a masonry box outside to hide the pipe and make it look like a pier. Do anything other than have a macerator.

If it were me I'd think long and hard about a naturally flowing waste system rather than macerating one. Only my opinion of course, but I hate the things.

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

To continue....

You can get hollow plastic aged-look oak beams (or make one in wood) to fit to your ceiling and hide the pipe inside. Then you can  have a pier at each end of the "beam" with the pipe inside one of them.

[WJT]

I would like to move an upstairs bathroom to another room and have a similar problem. The plumber told me that we could channel the soil pipe in the stone wall and plaster over. He has already done this with the electrics. If the wall is exposed stone it would be impossible but just wondering why this hasn't been suggested unless there is a reason not to do this. [8-)]