ponot Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Salut,Just in process of selling our property in the Loire and the Notaire has asked for several hunderd Euros from our purchaser to cover the cost of preparing the compromis. Is this normal as, after 15yrs. in France and buying and selling several properties, I have never heard of this before. Is this normal?Merci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Perfectly normal to ask for a percentage of the property price up front. I don't think it's purely for preparing the compromis, as you have stated.Usually the notaire's fee, taxes and agent's fee if applicable are all taken at the end of the sale at the time of the signing of the acte authentique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote user="ponot"]Just in process of selling our property in the Loire and the Notaire has asked for several hunderd Euros from our purchaser to cover the cost of preparing the compromis.[/quote]Seems to be perfectly normal these days. Even though we knew our notaire slightly before buying our house 3 years ago we were asked for a small deposit against costs 'just in case'. It was taken off the final bill when the sale went ahead.We also paid a few thousand deposit, as can sometimes be required; this was used to pay the agent immo on the day of signing the acte de vente.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponot Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yes, as I said, I'm not exactly inexperienced in buying and selling French property and I'm perfectly aware that you normally pay everything including tax, notaires fees etc. at the actual signing of the acte. but one reply confirms this and the other says that it is perfectly normal for a notaire to take a deposit but not for the compromis. Problem is that our buyer was specifically told that it was for the compromis to be prepared. So it's not much clearer really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote user="ponot"] Problem is that our buyer was specifically told that it was for the compromis to be prepared. So it's not much clearer really![/quote]As I said it can happen these days especially if the buyer is not known to the notaire or has no history of buying in France - as was our case. It is labelled as : reçu accompte sur provision frais vente ... on our final bill.Make of it what you will.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 There was a time when a deposit of 10% of the purchase price non-refundable if the buyer dropped out for unjustified reasons was demanded.With my two last purchases that was no longer needed, so the Notaire simply asked for his own fee (the cost of preparing the compromis), so he would be sure to get it if I dropped out.He didn't seem to give a t*ss about whether the seller got anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Our buyer was asked by the agent without discussing it with us for a 5% deposit. We weren't happy with this and asked for a 10% deposit. I think this is the norm in our area. We would not feel comfortable making plans and incurring expenses if the buyer can pull out without any penalty or commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The buyer can't pull out...officially.The 10% deposit is forfeit if there is no clause covering the reason for not proceeding.But in a depressed market buyers might be put off if the deposit is insisted upon, so the practice of not bothering to ask for it (especially if it is a small sum as mine would have been) has crept in.BUT cynically the Notaire ensures his own fee by asking for that even if the deposit is waived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 That makes sense Norman. But we would have rather put someone off versus incurring lots of expenses and packing everything, selling things etc.. worrying that the buyer could pull out without any sort of commitment on their part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikew Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 With our recent move the Notaire asked for his part of the charges with no deposit being asked for, BUT the 10% was included in the compromis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 With Sue in Morbihan on this one: yes, IME, it can/does happen. It's simply the notaire being careful to cover his/her loss in case the buyer pulls out before signing the compromis. And given the work that can go into the preparation of a compromis these days, I s'pose it's not unreasonable - there's no reason why the notaire should be out of pocket due to a flaky potential buyer.It might just be worth making the point that all notaires' charges are set centrally by the state, i.e. they don't have the ability to charge what they like.Go http://www.notaires.fr/fr/le-tarif-du-notaireSo, if you think you are being charged for something which you shouldn't be; or if you think you are being charged an excessive amount, you simply ask for a justification by reference to the "Décret(s) portant fixation du tarif des notaires". Something which has happened to us once in c. 10 purchases and sales.It might also be worth pointing out that c.80% of the so-called frais de notaires are in fact local and state taxes. Of the remaining 20%, half is the notaire's administration costs, leaving the other half for his/her fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 [quote user="NormanH"]The 10% deposit is forfeit if there is no clause covering the reason for not proceeding.[/quote]The only way it's forfeit is if the buyer agrees to it or it's ordered by a court, some sellers still have the quaint notion that a buyer dropping out without reason or out with the clauses in the compromis automatically means they get the deposit - dream on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 [quote user="AnOther"][quote user="NormanH"]The 10% deposit is forfeit if there is no clause covering the reason for not proceeding.[/quote]The only way it's forfeit is if the buyer agrees to it or it's ordered by a court, some sellers still have the quaint notion that a buyer dropping out without reason or out with the clauses in the compromis automatically means they get the deposit - dream on ![/quote]That is exactly what our Notaire told us. After signing the compromis there is a ten day cooling off period (this is new until recently it was seven). There is a deadline of the day after the ten days to send the deposit to the Notaire, if after this period the buyer pulls out they lose this deposit. I presume perhaps the Notaire fees and perhaps taxes (I have no idea) would be taken from the deposit but this is then given to the seller. By the way, the seller doesn't have this cooling off period and I am told is committed the day of signing the compromis and would have to pay the agreed percentage deposit if they back out. This works just like an exchange in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 No doubt the immobilier would be there for his or her pound of flesh out of the deposit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 There are two things getting mixed up here.1) is the official way of doing things which is exactly as has been described. I don't argue with the facts.2) is what can happen 'on the ground' where the buyer pulls out and the seller should be entitled to the 10%, but of course being entitled to it and getting it are two very different things.As ANO has said it could come to a court case, unless the buyer is soft enough to pay up without a fuss. Of course the seller is in the right, and should win, but even if the case is won there is still the matter of getting the money out of the other party. I won a case over a car I bought that turned out to be dangerously un-roadworthy, but though I won with costs the seller just declared himself insolvent and thus unable to pay me back, so I lost the money, the vehicle, and had the legal and huissier's fees to pay for my 'victory'.Notaires have seen all this before and just make sure their own fees are covered.If you are selling don't let this worry you unduly, as the great majority of sales aren't like this, but don't let anyone tell you that it is cut and dried either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 NormanH, the difference between this and your situation with the car is the deposit is sitting in the Notaires account already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Only if a deposit has been paid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Yes of course! Personally wouldn't proceed otherwise unless I was moving next door. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_Landes Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 What is called "Frais de Notaire" Solictors fee I supose in English is a carefully calculated amount set on a specific method of calculation laid down by the Government and mostly covers stamp duty and land transfer taxes. The method of calculation and when it is due can been found on http://www.calcul-frais-de-notaire.fr/Normally I believe if you buy through the Notaire and not through an agency he will ask a fee for preparing the Compromis.Generally speaking Agents ask the buyers how much they can afford to put down as a deposit and accept that.If the sale doesn't go through then no matter how much the deposit you still have to sue for damages and prove a prejudice. Which in French courts might be a little difficult for a foreigner buying a second home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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