Permis de construire question

[Me0wp00]

Hi I'm hoping someone can help me, for the 170m2 architect limit for the pdc is it calculated on the inside of the main outside walls from one side of the house to the other or is it finished room m2 sizes.  I'm trying to draw plans out and i'm only just under the 170m2 limit but if it's finished room sizes (incl plasterboard thicknesses and the battening) then i'm well under. Do they include all the rooms including halls/corridors in the calculations

Thanks in advance for any replys

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Bad news: you actually have to measure to the outside of the walls. You count the whole habitable area, including corridors, loos, built-in wardrobes...

It's a while since I last checked the rules, but

I seem to remember a general allowance of (?) 5% for insulation, so in theory you could have a place of 178 m2 and still get in.

You can subtract any areas with a ceiling height less than 1.8 m.

You can subtract the area of a staircase from one of the floors, to avoid counting it twice.

You can subtract any gaps in the upper floor(s), such as galleried areas.

Garages don't count.

There's an explanation here with diagrams. http://www.archi.fr/CAUE93/conseil/pdf/shonshob.pdf

[Me0wp00]

Yup bad news :O( Thanks for that the mairie assured me it was inside measurements

[scotslassie]

Forgive me for sounding really dim, but what is this 170 m2 rule for architects regarding pdc? There is outline planning which expires in 2009 on a barn I have almost purchased.  It is very small - only about 80 m2.  Should I be worried?!  Is it regarding whether you need to use an architect?[:)]

[Gyn_Paul]

Less than 170 sqm and the use of an architect to draw the plans is optional, you can submit plans to the Mairie drawn yourself if you so wish. Greater than 170 sqm and you must use an architect to draw the plans.

NB These were the old rules, not sure if it is still the case.

It's always a good idea in the 'less than' case to talk to the Mairie to assertain what documents (type of plan, scale, number of photos, how many copies etc) they require as it can vary from region to region.

p

[scotslassie]

Excellent news for me, thank you. I will speak to the Marie when I visit to sign the final contract. Obviously I would like to start work asap but this will probably be Aug visit.  Hopefully this should be long enough to get final plans approved.  I read elsewhere that no work can be started until this is granted.  Can I not even insulate a roof or replace existing windows with new ones - general maintenance?

[Me0wp00]

Any one have any idea on architect costs just to rubber stamp our plans ?

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Apparently it's not easy to find one. You may find it worthwhile joining les Castors -- it's a cooperative association for self builders. They have all sorts of services, including some tame architects. Have a look at

http://www.autoconstruction.info/Connaissez-vous-LES-CASTORS.html

or Google for autoconstruction castors.

I haven't had dealings with them myself yet, though, so this is not a recommemdation.

Alternatively, you could try paying for a hour or so of an architectural draughtsman's time. They might be able to identify ways to get your plans under the 170 limit and may be useful in other ways.

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Me0wp00"]Yup bad news :O( Thanks for that the mairie assured me it was inside measurements
[/quote]You'd be forgiven for thinking that this is pretty basic stuff which the Mairie has no excuse for not getting right [:-))] 

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Makes you wonder how the French who don't read this forum cope! [6]

[Gastines]

From my understanding  unless you have no building knowledge or absolutely have to use an Architect, it is an area best avoided. I believe an add-on to your building costs could be up to 15%. They have to guarantee,by insurance etc, their work for 10 years. Whether anyone gets any joy out of the guarantee system I have yet to hear. I also believe that it is normal practise to add-on a percentage to all trades and goods.  I like whenever possible to be in charge of my own destiny and budget.The French system seems to be built on finding work for the Professions,paid work that is!!

Regards.

[john]

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the forum Code of Conduct.

[cooperlola]

We paid 600€ for the plans and the permit documentation.  But as said above, much depends upon the size and nature of your project.  The 15% fee is, as I understand it, for architects who also act as project managers and sign off on the finished job. Whether this is a necessity or a luxury once again depends on the nature of the work.