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Almost ready for habitation, what next?


just john

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I have owned a property for some five years, paying tax fonciere only, (not tax d'habitation), during which time the property has either been dormant or under renovation. I'm almost reluctant to declare that the month may soon arrive when a part of the property may become habitable (subject to schedule!); what happens then?, the property will not (or need to)  become completely habitable for some time after this, with still some major building works to complete.

I presume that some assessment will need to be made on the value of taxes, and a declaration made, how is this done and how is the new value calculated? Are there any steps at this stage from a tax planing perspective that should be considered? I appreciate that a visit to my notaire might be valuable at this stage, but before I do, details of what to do or any experience appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

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if i remember rightly i went to the impots direct and spoke to a nice lady and explained the situation with having a partially renovated property my tax habitatation was then recalculated on the number of functioning rooms and i wasd asked to inform them when another part of the property was habitable for a reassessment as that part is taxed as a grenier. all very civilised and simple i doubt this has anything to do with a notaire unless you want to pay his bill.
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If you had planning permission for your renovations the tax office will eventually send you a form to fill in - H1. It involves listing rooms and their measurements.

If you didn't need planning permission then best to wait until all the works are finished.

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  • 2 weeks later...
They send me an H1 every year, but as the renovations are not complete I simply fill it in as such and send it back. Had no problems to date. 5 years? Blimey, you work fast, mine has been going since 2002? It will finally be 100% renovated this year though. My view is that unless water and electricity are up and running then it is not habitable. At the moment it is simply a structure with empty rooms and no utilities.

I am glad that you asked the question, I was going to ask the same one myself! I am guessing that I just advise the local office and give them room measurements, and they will do a calculation. I took the route of planning the house so that there is only 1 bedroom, the other one is a mezzanine 'storage area' so that in theory should reduce the tax, although I will await their verdict with baited breath.

I am in the same boat, it will be finished but unfurnished and uninhabited for a while (and then only as a holiday home) until I decide whether to rent, sell, holiday let, or live in it. I would prefer to move down there as it is a much bigger/nicer house than my uk one, and all brand new...but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day either [:(]

Rob G

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Water and electricity supply are in the building for working purposes, and the shell is almost completely finished, half the building is ready for fitting out, first fix plumbing etc. Currently quaking about French rewire cost being twice the cost of UK. Planning permission was for a four bed with two bathrooms and a utility and downstairs cloakroom with loo, I'm being advised to revise this since taxe d'habitation is based on the number of double VC? Plan is for semi-habitation next year in order to live on site while fitting out but wondering what requirement to legalise status of this is?

 

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Those could be expensive bathrooms. Nice to have...but need to have?

I have plenty of room in the grenier for two more large bedrooms, but decided against doing those as it saves renovation costs, tax etc. If I ever decide to sell it then I will either do the conversion or make it a selling point. They would both overlook open countryside. I don't need them, but someone else might and the option is always there.

I think the turning point for the Tax D'habitation would be 'habitable'. Eg If you have utilities up and running, working bathroom and kitchen etc then it is. Although I have all new electrics (yes, expensive) all of the fittings are still hanging out of the plasterboard, and the only water supply is a stand pipe inside the house. All of the new plumbing is done but not connected to the mains, and the hot water tank is not installed yet. I am just mindful that a local may call round while the builder is there, and at the moment no one could descibe the place as habitable.

It would however, only take a day to connect everything up, so I am leaving that until the very end of the project. Just being cautious.

As for living there while the works are completed, I would view this as 'habitable', regardless of how complete it is. If it was my declaration, it would be on the basis that anything that was not complete was a storage room, but that's just me...not the official view.

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When I was arguing the toss over habitable area with the Hotel des impots specifically all 3 floors of the main building which had no services, internal walls or even plaster on the outside walls they said that if there were floorboards and a staircase then it is a habitable area and counts for the tax computation.

I should explain that I currently live in the former outbuildings which I have converted to a flat which is of course habitable, because this small 37m2 has central heating they count the whole 220m2 as having this level of confort, luckily for me they have conveniently (for them as I was becoming a pain) lost my dossier [;-)] Tip: if you have electric heating put a plug on the heaters and make them freestanding until such time as you think you will no longer get a visit and then they dont count as central heating, you can always say that you eventually fixed them to the wall as they kept falling over.

On the positive side you will not be imposable for taxe d'habitation or relevance audiovisuel unless the building was habitable on the 1st of January so you need not worry about this year and perhaps might consider delaying the habitable date, however you decide to interprete it until say the end of January.

Good luck

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I never even thought to look at whether the heaters are plugged in or hard wired, I was down there a couple of weeks ago. The good thing is that because I am rarely there, and the builder only works there on occasions, the chances of a 'visit' are pretty unlikely. I had asked the builder to complete by Christmas, but taking on board what you say, I will ask him to sublit his final bill in the New Year, with a completion date in January. That should save me a few cents.

Everything is 'hanging' from the walls and ceilings anyway whilst it is all finished off, so I reckon I would have a good case for non-habitable if anyone decided to try and impose the tax. I could always offer them the chance to live there and prove it?? [:P]

Rob G

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That doesnt come into it, if it has walls, a roof, floorboards, a staircase (in the case of upper stories) and one sink it is habitable. In fact that pretty much sums up my first 18 months of living here in a tent on my ground floor.

I would just wait until the next time they send you an H1 and think carefully before filling it out.

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[quote user="Chancer"]

That doesnt come into it, if it has walls, a roof, floorboards, a staircase (in the case of upper stories) and one sink it is habitable.

[/quote]

'Habitable' can have a different meaning here. When we came to view the house we rent there was a wooden kitchen fitted - and very nice it was too - during the course of the visit the then tenant made a point of saying that it was her kitchen and that it would be moving to her new house with her. Asking what would be in its place I was shown a single sink unit which was in pieces in the garage. It is still in the garage but fitted this time as it is our laundry area. We bought and fitted our own kitchen.

Sue

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There is no sink, no kitchen, no bathroom installed, and no staircase. All of these items will be the last to go in. The mains water comes from the stop tap to an internal stand pipe, it isn't connected to the internal plumbing. There are no floorboards...mainly because they are bare concrete floors ([:P]), the floor tiling is about to go down.

No way is the place 'habitable', as there is no water, and no bathroom or wc etc. Until the completion it is a rather extravagant shed. If the builder completes in January then I will declare it on the next H1, and will be all legal and above board.

Shame it isn't like the UK. Remove every stick of furniture, advise the council tax office, and there is no council tax to pay at all for at least 6 months.

Living in a tent indoors? I thought of doing that, but decided against it as it was easier to earn money in the UK and pay a builder to do the works in France. Mind you, I still have to get a log burner and flue installed, then start on the exterior, and then sort out the garden and driveway...ho hum...[blink]

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I'm in much the same situation: our barn conversion is almost finished. And that describes me too just about now.

Can anyone point me to previous threads about filling in the H1? My search skills on this site appear to be wholly absent.

Amongst the things I need to know is:

  • Which rooms count as habitable (bathrooms? workrooms - washing machine/freezer etc? kitchens? stairs? boiler room?)
  • Is there any significance to kitchens bigger or smaller than 9m2? (We're open plan, so there's probably some room for argument).

  • How much floor space does one count in a room under the eaves - is it only the space where the ceiling height is more than a particular figure? The H1 seems to suggest you just measure the floor.

There's presumably an on-line guide somewhere too.

Any help would be welcomed. Thanks.

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Hmmm, by coincidence my builder has just sent me the Attestation for reduced VAT.

This is interesting, as the key factor to qualify for the reduced VAT rate is

3) Type of Works.

If I tick more than 5 of the 6 options then I don't get reduced VAT. However there are several grey areas.

Firstly, Floors which do not determine the strength or rigidity of the work. One of the outbuildings had a floor that extended halfway across it. This floor was replaced with a new one, almost exactly the same size, and turned into a mezzanine bedroom. So does this count as as a floor "which does not determine the strength or rigidity of the work"? It is new replacement of an old floor.

Partition walls, 1 new partition wall was erected to create a bathroom below the mezzanine bedroom described below.

Next, 'Heating systems (for buildings not situated in the Capital)...does this mean that as my property is out in the stick in Loire Atlantique, that this box should not be ticked?

and lastly,

'These works did not bring about an increase outside of the net floor area (SHON) (increased for farm buildings of the area of the floor area outside of the gross works) (SHOB) of the existing premises of more than 10%'

This is the English translation that they provide, and it is confusing the hell out of me.

The property was originally a cottage with two adjoining outbuildings. These have all been knocked through so the whole structure is now living space. So, does this count as an increase in 10%, eg are they referring to an increase in living space, or an increase in the size of the property. The property is still the same size, but the living space has increased.

Lastly, the Devis that I signed quoted 5.5% VAT, and all work was approved by me on that basis. If my responses to the Attestation result in 19.6% VAT, do I have to pay the difference? We are talking quite large sums of money here.

If anyone can shed any light on this I would be rather grateful.

Rob G

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