Filling in an H1

[Araucaria]

Our barn conversion is now just about done (meaning, there's still a lot to do, but only comparatively small jobs now - it IS habitable).

Can anyone help with the figures that go on the H1? Or point me to previous threads?

Amongst the things I need to know are:

• Which rooms count as habitable (bathrooms? workrooms - washing machine/freezer etc? kitchens? stairs? boiler room?)
• Is there any particular significance to kitchens which are bigger or smaller than 9m2?  (We're open plan, so there's probably some room for argument).

• How
  much floor space does one count in a room under the eaves - is it only
  the space where the ceiling height is more than a particular figure?
  The H1 seems to suggest you just measure the floor, but that seems unreasonable.

There's presumably an on-line guide somewhere too?

Any help at all would be appreciated - thanks.

[Clair]

There is a guide on pg 2 of the form. (See here)

For info:

"Considérez comme pièce tout espace, partiellement ou entièrement cloisonné, destiné à être normalement utilisé pour y séjourner, y dormir ou y prendre les repas"

Consider as a room any space,

partly or fully partitioned, normally intended to be used to stay, sleep or take meals in.

[Araucaria]

Thanks Clair.

Maybe a kitchen more than 9 m2 is assumed to be one you can stay in (or one less than 9m2 is assumed to be one you can't). I had read (but maybe not understood) the guidance on the form, so I will be excluding the bathrooms and the boiler room. The workroom with the washing machine, sink and freezer is a bit more doubtful.

Does anyone have any idea about the ceiling height point (floor area of rooms under the eaves)?

BTW I couldn't make that link work.

[Wibblywobbly]

I am guessing it is in here somewhere?

http://www.impots.gouv.fr

[Clair]

[quote user="Araucaria"]Does anyone have any idea about the ceiling height point (floor area of rooms under the eaves)?[/quote]

An area under 1.80 m high is not considered habitable.

[just john]

[quote user="Clair"]There is a guide on pg 2 of the form. (See here)

 [/quote]

Is it me, I only get Acceder au Formulaire when trying to log on to the H1 Form?

 

[Clair]

Try this: Déclaration H1

[Rob Roy]

Araucaria wrote:

"Our barn conversion is now just about done (meaning, there's still a lot to do, but only comparatively small jobs now - it IS habitable)."

Don't be too hasty to comply! We were told by a French advocat that until the work was finished we need not complete any forms so keep some work in progress for as long as possible, and our (French) neighbours have been living in their house for about 4 years now, but it is still not 'finished' ....... I'll leave you to decide why not!

[Ladoix]

IT's best with theses forms to actually go into the Hotel des Impots and ask them to clarify it.

When I completed ours the lady told me I had to measure, every part of the room, including the built in wardrobes as the legal measurements are different on different forms and the 1.80m rule does not apply for the H1, that exception is only for the 'Loi Carre'.

We had great fun getting them to accept our house had got smaller as we had demolished all the rooms in the grenier and it was now completely uninhabitable.

Our Impots said all rooms counted and the total surface area of the house could not shrink!

[Clair]

[quote user="Ladoix"]I... the 1.80m rule does not apply for the H1[/quote]

I suggest the person you talked to might be mistaken:

[quote]

La surface habitable d’un logement

« est la surface de plancher construite, après déduction des

surfaces occupées par les murs, cloisons, marches et cages d’escalier,

gaines, ébrasements de portes et de fenêtres ; [ ... ] Il n'est pas

tenu compte de la superficie des combles non aménagés, caves,

sous-sols, remises, garages, terrasses, loggias, balcons, séchoirs

extérieurs au logement, vérandas, volumes vitrés prévus à l'article R.

111-10, locaux communs et autres dépendances des logements, ni des

parties de locaux d'une hauteur inférieure à 1,80 mètre» (article R

.111-2 ).

Habitable area of a dwelling

"Is the floor area built after

deducting the area occupied by walls, partitions, stairs and

stairwells, sheaths, embrasures of doors and windows [... ] It does not

take into account the area of undeveloped attic, cellars, basements,

sheds, garages, terraces, loggias, balconies, dryers outside the home,

porches, glass volumes provided for in Article R. 111-10, common

premises and other outbuildings housing or parts of premises to a

height of less than 1.80 meters (Article R .111-2).

source[/quote]

[Chancer]

Just to confuse matters when I had a long and protracted discussion at the Hôtel des impôts on this subject (I was trying to wriggle out of filling in a form H1) the surface area that they were counting was the SHOB not the SHON

see here http://www.archi.fr/CAUE93/conseil/pdf/shonshob.pdf

And therefore my calculation included the areas with restricted headroom, the thickness of outside walls, my grenier because there were floorboards and a staircase and even my garage.

I am in the camp that believes that the non habitable areas of less than 1.8metres height are only deductible regarding the habitable area declared when selling or renting. but I keep an open mind.

Confusing isnt it!

[Ladoix]

This was also what I was told at the Hotel des Impots - the 1.80m exemption is only for rental and sales purposes - not the H1.  I might add, due to the complexity of our conversion, and several erroneous declarations since their records began, I spoke to several people who all told me the same thing. 

The only way to be sure is to visit your Impots and follow their line.

[Chancer]

It seems that what above ones head height, or more correctly what is not, can or can not be habitable according to whether it is being assesed for les impôts or la loi carré.

[gosub]

http://www.citemaison.fr/Calcul-SHOB-SHON-maison-individuelle.html

[BIG MAC]

I want to convert one of our substantial outbuildings into a Workshop with a mezzanine (Currently a Woodshed with Hayloft above)

I have always wanted a workshop where I can be warm and work on my bikes all year round so was thinking about Insulating the whole lot and putting some windows in the structural openings  (Formerly Hayloft doors etc) & some light tubes through from the new loft to downstairs to create as light a working space as is possible.

I  may put an isulated slab and  loop in some rudimentary heating.

Does this become taxable inhabited space?

I fully intend to spend a s much time out of the Wife's way as possible in there!