NickP Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I had a new De Dietrich GTU 1200V oil fired boiler fitted in our French house. The waste water from the boiler runs into an outside pipe and as it gets a bit chilly here in the winter (Loir et Cher), I uncoupled the pipe and directed it into a bucket in the building. I'm surprised with the amount of water it collects, about 10 litres a day, would that be normal? Apart from that, the system seems good and is a lot quieter and fuel efficient than the old one. The manual says that when the water tank heats up there is expansion of the water, and the excess will run off via the drain pipe, but it doesn't say what sort of quantity there would be. To me 10 litres seems a lot. Any advice from you guys who know about these things would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Yep about a litre of condensate an hour is perfectly normal and it sounds as though the boiler is spending most of its time in 'condensing mode' which is good and means running at near optimum efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 there is expansion of the water, and the excess will run off via the drain pipe Is this really the result of expansion? or as the previous poster assumed is it condensate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 It's condensate running va the sparge pipe to outside drain. 10 litres of expansion on a sealed vessel would be a doozie bearing in mind there will be an expansion vessel fitted if a sealed system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 [quote user="BIG MAC"]It's condensate running va the sparge pipe to outside drain. 10 litres of expansion on a sealed vessel would be a doozie bearing in mind there will be an expansion vessel fitted if a sealed system.[/quote]Thanks a lot BIG MAC you have put my mind at rest. By the way doozie is a new word for me, I looked it up and the urban dictionary says, "a large shot of alcohol", so cheers. Funny isn't it, they say fitting these new energy efficient boilers helps the environment, and it wastes all that " hot Water" there must be a use for it somewhere? This thought prompted my original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I've been surprised how much of this condensate runs away, too. Our plumber said it mustn't go into rainwater drain near the boiler in the garage. So it goes through a small tube up the wall, along the garage ceiling, throught the utility room and out into the waste water drain. It can be seen and heard over a long distance. (it will be boxed in by coving in the very distant future!) There seems a lot more liquid than from the old condensing boiler, although that couldn't be seen, only heard, and over a shorter distance, as it was by the utility room. Next door's new boiler does send the condensate out to the drain by the garage - British Gas obviously thought it was OK to fix it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Yes the condensate is rather acidic so it has to be disposed of with some care.This conversation reminds me of a case reported recently in the UK press. BG had fitted a new condensing boiler shortly before the recent cold weather. Due to the condensate freezing in the external drain pipe the boiler was cutting out. When the purchaser requested a visit to sort out the problem he was told there was nothing that could be done, they all do that in cold weather. Presumably correct sizing, fall, etc etc are concepts beyond BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Errr even although it goes through a primitive cleaning process that hot water isn't potable (Conatains combustion by products). I have yet to see it but one day someone will form a matrix of pipework under their growbags so that they can start seedlings early! Guess a conveniently located double glazed greenhouse is all that's needed! Why are greenhouses not double glazed anyhoo? ;-) all joking aside the condensate forms due to lower flue gas temperatures with condensing boilers running at 90% efficiency there isn't that much heat to be had it's all indoors keeping you toastie. Money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Our plumber said it had to be done as previously posted, as it had backed up into one he was called out to (not one he had installed!); the boiler had seized up and it cost the householder a lot of money! [:(]I forgot to mention, we also installed a pump to pump the condensate around. My husband did the whole installation, and the plumber signed off the safety aspects. (He's a very kind man, and it saved us a lot of money; he installed the last boiler about 12 years ago, serviced it each year, and took pity on poor pensioners!) [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 You will notice the sound more because I would imagine your condensate collects in a 'sump' and when it reaches a trigger level a float switch will activate the evacuation pump which will send a volume of waste through drainwards then shut down. The condensate is being pumped round bends which also makes the pump work harder hence noisier. When I was a boy plumber we had to do pipe sizing calcs which took account ofthe number of elbows and fittings in line......Your old set up will simply have drained away quietly under gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Builder. Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Just to reassure British Gas customers out there.... BG would never carry out an installation that wasn't to regs just as they would never condemn an installation solely to generate business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 British Gas also placed the pipe that sends steam out of next door's boiler so that it all came straight out over our house at a fairly low level. Two plumbers sucked their teeth at that! Their gas pipe also runs outside the house round the eaves - that may not be against regs, but it sure looks hideous!This isn't a 'knock British Gas' post, just what was done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 [quote user="the build doctor"]Just to reassure British Gas customers out there.... BG would never carry out an installation that wasn't to regs just as they would never condemn an installation solely to generate business.[/quote] A friend of mine in Devon had a Boiler problem, he called out the Gas Company he had a service contract with, the gas engineer condemned the Boiler and told my friend that the parts were no longer available for that model. £4500 and a new boiler later, my friend spoke to a plumber who did some research and said " these parts are available and are £150". Upshot, after an enquiry the Gas Company have repaid my mate £3500. Moral please do your research before handing over large amounts of money. I wonder how much commission the little rat of an engineer lost on that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Part of the business I work for provides reactive maintenance some of which is provided through a network of sub contractors.We often come across sub-contractor recommendations to replace boilers etc.due to spare parts availability -vs- projected service life arguments. We are a little compromised by the fact that we offer a 12 month s parts and labour guarantee on all work we carry out and don't like having to go back to an irate and cold customer (often vulnerable) We do however advise of the facts and offer options, the cheap one isn't always the cheap one in the longer run.At the end of the day we interrogate the evidence / grill the technicians check our own database of parts suppliers etc. and in doing so save customers the worry. Our recommendations are based on value arguements not get rich quick mentality. We have excellent client retention as a result.And we aren't British Gas albeit their work is generally ok all Gas Safe Register work is meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 I appreciate what you are saying Mac and I'm sure that your business is thoroughly reputable in its aims and dealings. But unfortunately that doesn't mean all are, and the one my mate used, the Gas Company, told him out and out lies, i.e. That "the parts are not available any more" condemned his boiler, shut it off and left him without heat while the new arrangements were put into place. The area manager after investigating the incident said " hands up it's our mistake we are very sorry". My pal was sharp enough to do some research and won his case, but I wonder how many vulnerable people there are out there who get conned, especially as the man doing the conning is registered and has the authority to shut your system down. Anyway Mac next time I have a question I now know who to ask, thanks ever so much . [B] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Sorry I didn't intend to creat e a defence for the less scrupulous out there (And we have seen a few) I was trying to illuminate that there will be times when equipment can be repaired and should be. There will be times when equipment can be repaired and probably shouldn't be. We provide good quality assessment of what we think is prudent, ultimately the decision rests with client.I agree often it's easier for a 'Gas fitter' to go and buy a boiler and make a good few quid than replace a PCB or thermocouple for a few quid.The man who won his case......more power to him I say....sounds like our kind of client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 It's always good to hear about people being fair to customers. Our chap in UK is great; he's been sorting out our boilers for 15+ years, installed the previous one and signed off the new one. He suggested my OH should install the new boiler and pipe runs, knowing he does lots of DIY. He knew we are both retired and wanted to save us money; he has plenty of work himself, and is stopping doing installations, he'll just do servicing. Our old boiler was OK, but about 12 years old and we wanted to move the position.Thermocouples - that takes me back - there was a Servowarm system fitted in this house when we moved in, which kept working well, apart from needing thermocouples replacing regularly. I seem to remember them as bent pieces of wire-like metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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