Is it worth it?

[bigears]

Hi

Caroline,  I know of a couple who are in a pickle trying to sell their uk home.  It is a different situation to you as they are now living in their maison secondaire which they have had for years.  The asking price has been dropped twice, still no takers and its costing them 350 - 400 pounds per month to run.    They are fully moved to france but they don't want to begin the process of registering as residents until the uk house is sold as there could be complications.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, its better not to expose yourself to these stressful and potentially costly situations.  I personally would not proceed until your house was finally sold and you had the money.  I'm sorry if its not what you want to here.  Good luck.

[Athene]

Hello Sunday Driver!

I have a very good friend who has lived in France for three years now. They were invalided out of teaching through having a nervous breakdown and they are 52 now. They are in receipt of a UK teacher's pension through this illness. They have been fine up-to-date in France and they have had an operation all paid for on the French Healthcare scheme. With the new arrangements, will they have to now pay for their French government healthcover or the fact that they are in the system mean that all their cover will stay in place? Or is it the case that they will have to now be re-tested in France to see if they are fit to work?

This friend is very worried about this and dreads to make the appropriate enquiries in case their case is highlighted and they have to undergo a reassessment of health to work. So far no-one has contacted them about this.

I would be grateful for your comments.

[woolybanana]

If the rumours are true, it seems those already in CPAM may be allowed to stay.

Why not be retested anyway if the case arises and get working again if it is possible, though age discrimination may clobber any real chance?

[bigears]

hi

Athene, I can hear SD driving away.  Your friend should be covered by an E121 if she took sickness retirement from teaching, so should be fine.  One of the experts on here hopefully will confirm that is the case.  You said 'they' were invalided out, do you mean they both had nervous breakdowns and were early retired on sickness grounds?

[P3]

Dexter, Caroline and anyone else in this situation perhaps you will let me tell you our my situation - and to start I fully agree with what the other posters have said.

About this time last year we signed our Compris and completed in January. I have a bookshelf of books on moving to France and used this Forum extensively,

We went ahead knowing exactly what the healtchare provision would be, even ideas of the cost of top up insurance

If we were about to sign the Compris now I would walk away inspite of very much liking where we have bought - having looked at 200 properties.

If you are in receipt of an E121 then go ahead but, if you are taking early retirement do not do it.

Private Health Insurance might be OK if you are in perfect health but from the company that I have spoken to and got a quote from they will not insure existing conditions. The cost was reasonable but it was not comprehensive and did not include medicines - and some of those can be very expensive.

My father was taken seriously ill a few weeks ago and I have spent a great deal of time visiting him in hospital. Now, he is 81 so not really such a shock. However, there has been a throughput of people still of working age, some of whom are quite sick. Now, if you move to France with your PHI and it is affordable and you are then taken ill with something that is long-term what might the insurance company do? I know of people in the UK who have protected insurance discounts on their cars but have had an accident and the insurance company then 'loads' the premium. Will the health companies do this potentially making it unaffordable.

Our original plan was to buy a house in France and for me to retire at 55. Paid more for the house and wish to add to it so replanned to retire at 57, selling our property in the UK and moving lock stock and barrel to France.

We will wait to see how thing turn out in 2008 once the system is fully in - better knowledge of what the PHIs will be like, costs settled down etc. But current thinking is:

Work until 60 (max occupational pension), sell current UK house, buy something cheaper and needing work, possibly at auction with a view to renovating it whilst living there (no tax to pay), putting it on the market and moving on to the next one whilst spending as much time as possible (182 days) in France each year - the reason for this is to stay UK resident and hence in the NHS. At 65 with E121 move to France and join the French health system.

We will need to carry on working until I am 60 as what we were going to invest in France and use the interest to supplement the pension will be needed to purchase the UK house and the additional pension (57 to 60) to fund both houses.

We did discuss selling the French house but surely the market must have diminished due to a reluctance of early retirees moving to France and some of those already there who will not be able to remain or get in to the French system due to existing conditions selling up to try to get back in to the UK housing market providing an even greater glut of houses on the French market.

Sorry to have rambled but think long and hard and heed the advice being given here.

Perhaps not viewing it as the end of a dream but merely a postponement

Best of luck

Paul 

 

 

[cooperlola]

Yes, Athene, the info' you've been given is correct.  If your friend is covered by an E121 he is fine as it has already been confirmed that your cover will remain unaltered if you have an E106 (but only until this expires) or an E121.  However, if not, he cannot apply for invalidity benefit in retrospect, once he is resident here afaik.

We are awaiting a final announcement from the French authorites as to the position of those already contributing to the CMU.  There are two possible scenarios, and we have yet to have proper confirmation as to which way the new ruling and instructions to local CPAMs will go:

1.  ALL those already contributing to the CMU will be allowed to remain in it.

2. Those who have been resideent in France for 5 years will be allowed to remain in/rejoin when they have achieved 5 years' residency.

Please ask your friend to look in on our website

www.frenchhealthissues.eu

to keep up with the latest news, and find out how he can help to push for better treatment for non-French EU nationals.

 

[dexter]

To clarify some points about my situation which may in turn help some others with decisions.

It has long been my intention to move permanently to France, I don't want two properties as I like to keep things as simple as possible.

Due to changes in my personal situation some years ago, (buying the ex out of this place etc) the vast majority of my money/equity is tied up in the House. I have a reasonable pension that I can live off (so far!) and so the decision was made to go for the move. The house in France was ideal for my needs in terms of location and the work required on it would keep me occupied as much or as little as I wanted to be.

The purchase was being conducted through an English company that often is mentioned on this site so the process from my point should be relatively stress free. My house went on the market six weeks ago with me thinking that as it had a buyer within six weeks three years ago before I took the decision to buy my ex out, then it should be the same now. Oh how wrong I was!

To date not one person has contacted the estate agents to arrange a viewing, I am told that the property market is cooling due to a number of factors such as higher interest rates, the time of year, (family sized houses don't sell near to Christmas), people don't want to pay stamp duty an the higher rate and neither do they want to pay for home information packs on the sale of their property. There`s no getting away from the last two points but apparently this is affecting house sales over here. A friend of mine is in exactly the same situation with the sale of his house having had only one viewing in eight weeks. The estate agent told me that even dropping the price of the house by £20,000 would have no effect and that I should not expect any interest until the turn of the year.

The English agents want their fee up front and with the deposit on the French property and the cost of a structural survey that I had already paid for, as well as the home information pack on my house the total payable was going to be just short of £20,000.

With the information I had been given about the sale of my house there was no way I could have met the projected completion date of 28th February. So if I went ahead hoping against hope that I would sell this place quickly and it all went wrong then I`d be £20,000 out of pocket plus any fees the notaire may charge for me breaching the contract.

A trip to the building society was made and I was told in no uncertain terms that I should not consider a bridging loan, other options were put forward but each had an element of risk and surprise surprise there would be an increased cost incurred.

Hence my original posing on this topic, after yet another sleepless night trying to work out alternative options I made the decision to walk away. It was the right decision for me.

I don't know what the agents have told the vendor about the reasons for my withdrawal and my French isn't good enough to contact him directly but he has been always been helpful on the times I`ve visited the property,(despite not wanting to wait for the sale of my house) so it is my intention to write to him and explain the situation from my side.

With regards to the private health care issue, I know it wont be cheap but if I have to pay it for three years (after E106 expires and until 5 year rule kicks in) then so be it.

My only real gripe, and I can't do anything about it, is Taxation. My police pension will be taxed in the UK but if I am resident in France I will get no benefits from it. National insurance payments are for your old age pension only and as I`ve worked over 30 years and contributed throughout then I no longer have to pay them as I am now guaranteed a pension. Tax paid in the UK covers health care but only if you re resident there so I wont be able to utilise the benefits in either country after two years!  As I said, nothing I can do about it if I want to live In France but sometimes it`s good to have a little moan.

And so the quest to move goes on for me, I may have been a little naive which resulted in setback but it`s not over yet.

[bigears]

hi

dexter, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, for want of a better word.  We live in haute vienne for half the year, if we can help you mail me.  Unfortunately we are leaving france this week and won't be back until march. 

[sunshine 2]

I've read through this thread and note that a couple of people mention havng an E106 for 2 years and then having private health insurance.

2 issues arise from this - some people do not get an E106 for 2 years - some are only 1 year or even less.  It depends on your NI contributions over the preceeding 3 years (I think) and so those already retired often have insufficient NI for the full 2 years (despite having spent 30 odd years working..............)

But more importantly - you will be taking a big risk by assuming that you health will still be the same at the end of the E106 as at the beginning.  There are some truely tragic situations emerging in France at the  moment - people due to end their E106's in Jan and have developed cancer or other major illness during the E106 period.  They are really stuffed for private health insurance!  Everyone assumes their health will be better in France - but it does not always follow. 

In my opinion private health insurance should be taken out before leaving UK - or else keep your UK house (perhaps let it) for the E106 period and rent in France - that way you will have somewhere to return to if you do develop serious illness during E106.

 

[Llantony]

I'm interested how people manage who spend several months a year in each country. We have just downsized to a small house in England (to pay off the mortgage we extended to buy the French house). Now hoping to spend most of our time in France from next July but worried we can't afford to as my husband will only be 60.  I gather he would be covered by my E106 but only until the end of 2009. He would get free prescriptions in the UK but wouldn't want to keep popping back from south west France in order to renew.

What happens about things like car insurance ?  Normally we are covered for holidays, but I don't think that means 6 months at a time.  Also, if we officially live in the UK, travel insurance (including health) would only cover us for a month in France.  If we live officially in France, we aren't eligible for NH S treatment.  How do others manage?  Or do they just hope they won't be ill and they'll never need to claim on motor insurance? 

[Alex H]

[quote user="Llantony"]

What happens about things like car insurance ?  Normally we are covered for holidays, but I don't think that means 6 months at a time.  [/quote]

My motor insurance covers me for 6 months out of the UK - I changed from my previous company because they only allowed me 30 days cover

 

[bigears]

hi

Llantony, we are in that category.  We are early retired (teacher and university lecturer) but not on sickness grounds, so no possibility of e121.  We downsized in the uk to a new house which is maintenance free, we already had a maison secondaire in france (still doing it up)..  We live between the two.  We remain resident in the uk and will do so until my wife is able to get an e121, at that point we will decide what we want to do.  From this point in time I will be surprised if we make the move full time to france.  For many reasons we both want to keep a uk home indefinately.  The uk housing market goes dormant for long periods then it goes daft, we don't want to be in the position of some who cannot afford to go back and live in a house/area of their choice. 

We have a french registered (and insured) car and will in the next few weeks purchase a uk registered small car to leave in the uk, as it is technically illegal to use the french registered one in the uk and we prefer to fly backwards and forwards.  We use the NHS and also have annual travel insurance (covers us for hazardous activities, very expensive) that covers trips away from the uk for up to 3 months.  We travel back to the uk frequently and never spend more than say 2 months at a time in france.  My wife, bless her still does some work in the spring/summer in the uk.  I keep a note of time we each spend in france (not the same, wife likes the uk more than me, also grandchildren issues).  I have used my european health card in france two or three times for minor treatment, dog bite, tick problem and crown falling out twice.  For serious problems we would be back in the uk within a day.  I do appreciate if we had an accident that might not be possible, then we would use our travel insurance.

We are in fact going back to the uk on friday and will not be returning until mid march.  As far as I can see we can prove we are totally above board in all aspects of our life style, I'm sure others will point out any area where they consider we are not, such is the nature of  such forums.  We do take a number of holidays whilst in france and the uk, any long haul holidays have to start and finish in the uk to abide by the rules of the annual travel insurance.  This is our chosen life style, it works for us but perhaps its not everyones cup of tea, unfortunately it doesn't come cheap, we are helped by a son who also lives in our uk house and helps with the running costs. 

If you have a house in both countries, there are many issues to consider with regard to taxation, especially if the uk house is worth much more than the french house.  We thought very carefully about becoming tax resident in france and for our circumstances decided it wasn't for us. 

Llantony I hope that helps, if you want more information use the email facility.

[mossie]

Dexter, whilst I have a lot of sympathy with your situation, I think you have done absolutely the right thing by walking away from this house.  Bridging loans are a really bad idea although they helped us because our vendor had a bridging loan on his new house and so we got a bargain, but that is another issue.  I have absolutely no doubt that you will find a house that will suit you when you are in a position to move.  The market is slowing here quite a bit.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if your chosen property is still on the market in the middle of next year.  Properties are often sitting on the market for an extremely long time (depending on their condition of course) although this does not seem to worry french people.  The market is swamped with properties for sale and as another poster has said, leave it for a few more months and there will be bargains to be had. People are (slowly) beginning to ask more realistic prices for their houses.  Our house in the UK took us two and a half years to sell (yes, this is not a mistake!).  It was in stunning condition but very unusual, a family sized house that was not suitable for a young family, so this added to the delay.  After a year a family with teenagers wanted the house, it then took them eighteen months to sell their house (which was very conventional).  All this time we waited, determined to have the money in our pockets before we moved.  We then rented here whilst we looked around and made sure the move was right for us.  Your head has ruled your heart, this bodes well for your future move to France.  A piece of advice we had from a couple living here years ago was 'don't fixate on just one house, there will always be another one to look at'.  This was very good advice.  Take your time, don't let anyone rush you into anything and at the end of the day, if you are not getting exactly what you want, be determined to walk away.  We adopted this attitude with our house.  The vendor messed us about saying he had had this offer and that offer etc.  We wern't prepared to increase our offer even though we really wanted the house, and we walked away.  A couple of months later when the house had still not sold, we put in a slightly increased offer, making it very clear it was a take it or leave it situation.  On past form the vendor knew we were serious, and he took it.  We now have a house we love, but not without a bit of heartache at the start.  Such is life!!!

[Ejc]

Hi Dexter,  Just to agree that you have done the right thing, several years ago we were in exactly the same situation, in that we had found a house in France, but the sale on our UK house fell through and we had to pull out. We were devasted, it had taken us ages to find, but we couldn't commit to bridging. We kept on marketing our UK house, and then finally sold it  and moved into rented accomodation while we came back over to France on house hunting expeditions. We couldn't find anything  and were getting really dispondent when our estate agent showed us over a house that they had literally been instructed on that morning, as we turned into the drive we knew it was right for us,  and inside just got better & better, we offered and this time the sale went though without a hitch. We now live here full time and the house we ended up with is infinatly better than the first one we saw, and every day we have to pinch ourselves to check that this is real. No matter how gutted you feel at losing this one - there will be another along later, and as others have indicated, if you are really meant to have that house, things will work out. All the best for the future and good luck with your house sale