Cooker - Butane or Propane Gaz ?

[joidevie]

We've just moved into our new house and need to convert out cooker from town gas to bottled gas. I'm replacing the jets on the rings and have just bought a hose kit with 'detendeur' to attach to gas bottles.

I have 2 empties, one rated 15 bar butane, one rated 30 bar propane. The cooker instructions say for butane 'nominal supply pressure' 28-30 bar (min 20 bar) and for propane nominal 37 bar (min 25 bar).

Which to use?

The hose kit states "For BUTANE" although the hose itself is clearly marked BUT-PROP  - GAZFLEZ/2    Can I use this kit for the propane too or do I have to drive 40km to exchange it (some in the shop were sold as 'Butane & Propane', this one 'Butane'..)

Many thanks for any advice...

[pachapapa]

I suggest you look carefully at the nominal supply pressure to verify if there is in a little m in front of the b.[:D] If that is so your supposition is out by a factor of 1000.[:D]

[joidevie]

OK.. I've looked at the hose kit and it is labeled "Detenteur 28 mbar"

In the cooker manual there is a section for liquid gas 'flow g/h' with flow specs for each burner ring for either G30 or G31. At the bottom is listed "supply pressure".

For G30

Nominal 28-30

Minimum 20

Max 35

For G31

Nominal 37

Minimum 25

Maximum 45

An asterix points me to some details:

*At 15c and 1013 mbar-dry gas

Propane G31 H.s = 50,37 MJ/kg

Butane G30 H.s = 49,47 MJ/kg

Methane G20 H.s = 37,78 MJ/m3

 I have 2 gas bottles

I blue TOTALGAZ

Butane 13kg

CA 26,8 l

PE 15 bar

1 green PRIMAGAZ

Propane 13kg

CAP 30,6 l

PE 30 bar

Am I missing something very obvious here? Is the hose good for both, and how do I work out which is the correct bottle. The TOTALGAZ is half full, so it would be handy, but only if it's the right one to use!

Many thanks..

[Gin62]

butane is an inside liquid gas and propane is an outside frost/ice  free liquid gas.

so it is possible to use both on your cooker  G30 refers to Butane gas, and the G31 refers to the propane, so set up your adjustments according to the bottle you wish to use first, then change over to the other for the 2nd bottle, But  I would make a decision to go with one or the other.

In uk we were in a mains free gas area and  I cooked using propane gas as the regs did not allow the  gas bottles in the house. Since 1999 and french regulations we have cooked on butane, as our gas bottle was originally in a cupboard in the cooker and with our new range cooker it is now in a separate little cupboard to the side. I would advise to check all joints with soapy water for peace of mind. We lived with a small leak on the new cooker for 10 days, which I could smell and my husband couldn't, so  I left the kitchen window ajar 24/24  when the engineer came with a replacement piece for the cooker (another story) he said yes there was a slight leak where he hadn't tightned the gas tube to the cooker  properly but not to worry the window was open and we have an american kitchen.

This hasn't put me off at all, quite happy with the butane, personally I find that propane cooks a little hotter and in the beginning cooking sponge cakes can be a bit hit or miss if you do not have an electronic or manual temperature gauge, or untill you get used to the oven again.

 

 

[gyn_paul]

• The hose will be good for both Butane and Propane; it's the Town Gas hoses which you mustn't use on LPG, it's a different type of rubber apparently.
• The jets on the cooker are not fussy; once you've changed the Town gas ones it will work equally well with Butane or Propane.
• Butane bottles are slightly cheaper than propane but the propane - which contains slightly more - seem to last longer.
• You can't use Propane inside the house.
• Butane freezes more readily than Propane (i.e. at a higher temperature) esp. when the bottle is less than 1/4 full.
• Butane and propane bottles require different regulators (different output pressures)
• If you are thinking of installing a 'Detente' (an automatic safety cutoff which closes the gas supply when the bottle runs out, and has to be manually reset when the bottle is changed) remember they are gas-type specific as well (although in practice a Butane one will work with propane, but not the other way round).

 

Hope this helps

 

p

[pachapapa]

Butane bottles are slightly cheaper than propane but the propane - which contains slightly more - seem to last longer.

Propane has a higher calorific value than butane giving a hotter flame, etc.

The table given by the OP notes the energy characteristics of the three gases

 Propane G31 H.s = 50,37 MJ/kg
Butane G30 H.s = 49,47 MJ/kg
Methane G20 H.s = 37,78 MJ/m3

The value for methane ie Natural Gas is by volume rather than by weight as in liquefied gases.

[joidevie]

Thanks for all the input..

So, does this mean I can use the BUTANE gas bottle which has PE 15 bar written on it?

It will be kept indoors if that matters.. But is this the right "supply

pressure"? If it helps, I used it happily on a twin camping gas cooker..

Many thanks...

[gyn_paul]

Yes.

The PE 15 Bar is the charge pressure (or possibly the test pressure) of the gas bottle itself. Don't confuse it with the final working pressure (in millibars) at the cooker end

That's why we have pressure-reducing regulators!

p

ps.  My Clairgaz butane has PH 30 Bar stamped on it, so make of that what you will !

[Salty Sam]

We've used Butane / Propane for many years and the only points I would stress are;

1. Replace the flexible (rubber)  hoses yearly.

2. Replace regulators every 2 - 3 years, important if exposed to the elements on cylinders kept outside.

Obviously you should make sure you don't get the regulators mixed up.

Somewhat ironic situation in that we had a main natural gas pipe running approximately 150 metres from the property but this couldn't be tapped into. It would have resulted in a flame height at the cooker measurable in metres!

[pachapapa]

I think the best is a mixture of Butane & Propane for my "fllame thrower weed killer" the manufacture supplies convenient screw on canisters containing a mixture of Butane and Propane.

I think the best solution would be a joint supply of Butane and Propane with juicious mixing to get the optimum stoichiometric balanced mixture for kitchen use.

I think this would be ideal as if I ran out of either Butane or Propane at an inauspicious moment when expecting the Sarkozys for dinner I would be able to complete the cuisinary process with either Butane or Propane. 

[Jonzjob]

There was talk in the U.K. a while back of scrapping the 2 different regulators and having one for both of the gasses. It was considered that as the pressures are so close that it wouldn't make any difference. I have no idea why it wasn't implimented, but it does beg the question of does it really matter.

As far as the hoses are concerned you are, by law, supposed to change them after 5 years of use. You can get a reenforced hose now with a flexible braided metal covering. It has the connectors fitted. It does not need to be changed at all. More expensive, but in my opinion a good investment. Our was, because it's a pig to get to the connector. We have a 1 ton propane gas tank at the rear of our house.

[gyn_paul]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]There was talk in the U.K. a while back of scrapping the 2 different regulators and having one for both of the gasses. It was considered that as the pressures are so close that it wouldn't make any difference. I have no idea why it wasn't implimented, but it does beg the question of does it really matter.

As far as the hoses are concerned you are, by law, supposed to change them after 5 years of use. You can get a reenforced hose now with a flexible braided metal covering. It has the connectors fitted. It does not need to be changed at all. More expensive, but in my opinion a good investment. Our was, because it's a pig to get to the connector. We have a 1 ton propane gas tank at the rear of our house.
[/quote]

in answer to your begged question: no, I don't think it matters. Unlike the old UK regulators where the butane regulators screwed in one way round , and the propane the other, thus making them type-specific, the French ones are identical.

In my old house I piped the gas in from outside. feeding a multipoint water heater, and a gas cooker. I now can't remember which way round it was (I'm fairly certain it was a butane regulator), but I do know I changed from butane to propane when we went from summer to winter and didn't change the regulator, and neither appliance seemed to show any difference. I also had a butane detente (the butane pressure isn't high enough to keep the spring latched on a propane one).

Because there was some 20 or so feet of pipework, when a bottle ran out there would still be gas in the pipe. If I then changed gas type and relit the cooker the burners would then use up all the old gas (butane, say) in the pipe, and then onto the new (propane, say) with absolutely no decernable change in the flame height or colour. No doubt there will be some cookers out there whose jets don't cope with the change of gas-air mix ratio, but all I know is my (new) cooker, and my (very old) multipoint coped without problem.

 

p

[pachapapa]

I think my weed killer flame gun canister contains a mixture of 70% Butane and 30% Propane. I think the canister is made by OxyTurbo. I think the canisters are made in Italy. I think it goes like a bomb.

[Frederick]

Going slightly off topic .We found that our French butane gas cooker cooked hot..... An oven temperature guage that can by popped in and read through the door glass might be an idea to avoid burnt food ...On Amazon new including postage about £5.

[gyn_paul]

[quote user="Frederick"]Going slightly off topic .We found that our French butane gas cooker cooked hot..... An oven temperature guage that can by popped in and read through the door glass might be an idea to avoid burnt food ...On Amazon new including postage about £5.[/quote]

 

...made worse because we Brits are used to gas cookers ovens with the burner(s) either along each side or at the back, designed to encourage convection currents which usually means that a UK gas oven is hotter at the top than the bottom. A typical French one has the burner under the base which ensures that the bottom is far hotter than the top - indeed it's far too easy to burn things at the bottom as I know to my cost!

 

p