Ancient House

[John Brown]

We have an ancient house in the garden that dates back to pre 1750.

Its granite stone, only 5 by 4 metre internally on two levels with no water, electric or waste. Just two rooms

I'm looking for ideas for a future use. The obvious answer is for guest accommodation but I'm hoping for other ideas

I'll restore the exterior exactly as it was originally, or at least as it was the last time it was interfered with, which was according to the Lady that owned it, about 70 years ago

Are there any good references to how it would have looked originally. ( Creuse Area ) The window openings have sides made with handmade red bricks which don't look right !

Thanks John 

[andyh4]

Before thinking of doing anything you must check with the mairie that you are actually allowed to do so.

Just because it used to be a house does not automatically mean that you can restore it to being a house - strange but true.

[ericd]

Sorry but once a house always a house so there would be no issue returning it to its original state.

[andyh4]

Not in our canton.

According to the Maire, if a house is uninhabited and the roof collapses through lack of maintenance the CU will normally be withdrawn.  Consequence: the house is no longer a house.

 

There are also stories of folk who have bought small farmhouses with huge attached barns with the thoughts of a Grand Designs special, only to find that the house is not a house because it has been uninhabeted for too long.  OK maybe aprochriphal stories since I do not actually know anyone to whom this has happened, but in the end a trip to the mairie to make sure costs little except time.

 

[ericd]

In that case, the house is on private property, nothing can stop the OP do start work, get the roof repaired and then move on to ask for authorisation.....

[Cendrillon]

If it is situated close to a listed building, church etc and you plan to change the facade in any way, you will need permission for this. However it sounds as though your plan to restore it to its former glory would be more than acceptable.

[pachapapa]

Check first the cadastre napoléonien to ensure it is recorded; the cadastre is post 1750, so there should be no problem.

http://www.cadastre.gouv.fr/scpc/listerCommune.do?useLastFwd&listeParcelleValeurSortField=triParcellePuisFeuille&listeParcelleValeurSortOrder=up

Check with your departmental branch of Maisons-Paysannes, they will assist in advice on architecture of building.

http://www.maisons-paysannes.org/

Cant see any problem with the restoration other than the requirement for a Declaration Préalable. It will however almost certainly be required to comply with current regulations; eg NF C 15-100 domotique as the house predates EDF.[:)]

[Swissie]

Slight diversion -sorry. The title made me wonder - who's got the oldest house on CF. Ours dates from 1587, and partially rebuilt after a fire in 1663, when the public bread oven caught fire.

[Patf]

Do you live in Pudding Lane, Swissie?

Sorry, couldn't resist it, the dates etc are so similar [:D]

Pat.

[nomoss]

I think it's definitely worth a visit to the Mairie to check. You can never guess.

A friend has a house close to Agen, near the river. He started work to repair his roof, almost completely wrecked in a storm. The works were stopped by the Mairie because his house is within view of a protected building, an old tower about 150 metres away behind his trees and across a field.

There was a delay of over a year before the works could be continued, during which time his roof had to be covered with tarpauilins - and it's huge.

[Swissie]

lol  no Patf - quite a long way away indeed - but I suppose fires from public bread ovens must have been very common in those days - anyway, we were ahead by 3 years. The oven was in a separate house originally for VERY GOOD reasons!

We have a cat called Pudding - but that's another story (if I ever caught the b*****rd who left her by the M69 in a taped cardboard box with 10 kittens, I'll cut his ****** off).

[Russethouse]

 When you go ahead, how about making it a home gym/wii area ? 

[Cendrillon]

If you are a creative person, artist etc. how about a studio for yourself or family member.

[John Brown]

Thanks for all the comments.

I referred to the house as Ancient only because I have heard, in France, that old un-refurbished small houses in the grounds of more modern houses are often classed as "Ancient"

The main house was built around 1850 and I'm told the older house was used up to then by the same family. The house like many in France was owned by the same family since it was built.

Structurally its solid with a sound roof, although the roof will need to be stripped and re-tiled. Luckily  there's plenty of spare tiles available to make up for the damaged ones.

I'll speak to the Mairie even if it turns out that I didn't need to. Can't do any harm and I may get some good advice

Thanks again, John

[Araucaria]

Ancien is (or so they taight me at school a long time ago) one of those odd adjectives with quite a different meaning if placed before the noun, rather than after.

So an ancien maison is a former house, and it may not be old at all, just disused: while a maison ancien is definitely old, but may still be inhabited.

[Swissie]

spot on - but might I correct spelling. Maison is feminine    so   Voici la photo de notre ancienne maison (previous house)    cette maison est très ancienne: elle date de 1587.

But you could also say   cette très ancienne maison appartient au Maire de la ville. The adjective is in front, but it still means 'very old'.

Our house is called   l'Ancienne Cure   - because it is both very old and a former Vicarage.

[Araucaria]

Thanks Swissie - my schoolboy French was learnt a very long time ago. The phrase "une tres ancienne maison" is one I probably wouldn't have misunderstood, but it's clearly an exception to the normal rule and I'd certainly forgotten it - if I ever knew it. [Can't do accents ... or genders for that matter !]

[Swissie]

Shame you can't do 'gender' - that must be frustrating at times. lol.

Here is a silly joke:

2 chaps from East London go to Paris for the day. They never did French at school, and never been abroad. Comes lunchtime and they are starving- so walk into a little café. Looking at the menu, they haven't got a clue- but one spots 'soupe du jour' - so they come to the conclusion they can't go wrong. Soups arrive and one has a fly swimming in the middle- so the guy points to it and a man at the next table says 'mouche Monsieur' and calls the 'garçon'. Jimmy tells him 'un mouche dans le soup' and the waiter replies

'mais non Monsieur, c'est pas un mouche mais une mouche' and walks away. Jimmy is amazed 'cor, he's got blimming good eye sight'!

Hope you didn't mind me correcting - all in jest and good humour.

[woolybanana]

Not these days, dear; any port in a storm, so to speak!

[Rich1972]

[quote user="ericd"]Sorry but once a house always a house so there would be no issue returning it to its original state.[/quote]

That is not true. My brother wanted to rebuild a house in the Massif Central but was denied planning permission. The house was four stone walls with no roof and no floors and the answer was a resounding 'non' even though it had been lived in within the last 20 years or so.

[Swissie]

Just began going through the archives left in a cupboard in the barn. Amazing - but I must get a specialist in to go through them with me and record them properly. So far the oldest document I've found is an inventory from 1624!

[mint]

What was in the inventory, Swissie?

Was it along the lines of 10 quivers of arrows, 5 pairs of lederhosen, 1 hat with feather, 2 pairs of above- knee boots, 4 jerkins, a barrel of apples, a large cross-bow, etc?

Were there any other items from William Tell's gym practice equipment?

[Swissie]

lol, Sweet no - it describes room by room any door and fittings, windows, and all fixtures, including type and style of ironwork, handles, fireplace implements, etc.

Anyway - going through it all will hopefully keep me out of trouble!

Just found one for 1755 and another from 1769. It will be interesting to compare them. Confirm that the back was a stable for beasts and that pigs were kept downstairs. Also found all the accounts for the tithes. Really must get specialist help in sorting them out.

[BIG MAC]

Hmmmm sound like Aggro-cultural use to me ;-)

[Swissie]

Not quite sure about your joke Mac? Our house has been a rural Vicarage since 1587. In those days Vicars in the countryside had to be self-sufficient and have horses to visit their parishioners.