DIY Electrics - the official line?

[joidevie]

Hi..

I was wondering what the actual 'official line' was in France regarding 'doing your own' electrical installation/replacement etc.. In the UK things have become more stringent as to what 'is allowed' to be done by a non qualified/registered individual?

With the brico sheds full to the rafters with the materials and many punters happily buying them, and nearly every house you visit someone is 'doing their own', I suspect the practice may be somewhat different to the 'rules'. Might this affect insurance policies for example?

I previously converted a barn and placed many of the gaignes during the construction, and later called in a friend who had previously worked as fridge technician (and was a 'qualified' electrician) to come and wire the place - and plan to do this again on our new renovation..

It just got me thinking after a friend here in the UK began complaining about how many things he was no longer 'able' to do himself after new UK rules came into practice in 1995..

[AnOther]

Someone will be along to answer you question I'm sure but despite the rules just like in France in UK it hasn't stopped the likes of B&Q doing a roaring trade in electrical fittings has it ?

Whilst professional electricians might pop into B&Q for the odd bits mostly they will be buying from a wholesalers so it's hard to come to any other conclusion then that the majority of customers are amateur DIYers which implies that they either don't know the rules or don't care.

I guess the latter is fair enough until you come to sell, and the same goes for just about anything else you do which technically you shouldn't, but I wonder, has anybody ever heard of a sale in France falling through because of DIY electrics ?

Certainly my erstwhile neighbours, who sold earlier this year following a complete DIY job, experienced no problems.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

I'd guess that unless there was something glaringly wrong (UK 13 amp sockets ...) then most house buyers would accept the electrics at face value.

One house we owned in Kent passed a survey (not just a mortgage valuation) but a few years later when I needed to change a light fitting I discovered all the lighting circuits were the original (1930's) rubber (perishing) covered cables in conduit. I ended up rewiring the whole lot and when we sold in 1999 nobody asked about who'd done the work.

[pachapapa]

Rewiring to current norms is likely to be expensive and wise bunnies are likely to avoid such an experience.

As an example consider the norms for domestic communication introduced in january 2010...an RJ45 socket for TV, computer and telephone costs between € 30-40....and that is just a bit of plastic with some wires in it stuck in the wall. Take a gander at the material in the tuition guide in following link.

 http://stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/cours/abati/domo/vdi.htm

Right you are beginning to get the picture.....now how about all the rest of the wiring and equipment in the house....no problem Schneider Electric will oblige...continue to next link

http://www.e-catalogue.schneider-electric.fr/navDoc/catalog/nf/little/index.htm

That lot would keep a leccy busy for more than a couple of weeks and push his devi over € 10k[:D]

[Chancer]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

As an example consider the norms for domestic communication introduced in january 2010...an RJ45 socket for TV, computer and telephone costs between € 30-40....and that is just a bit of plastic with some wires in it stuck in the wall.[:D]

[/quote]

I agree that it wshat a sparky is likely to charge you, unless he can find an even higher public price but surely that is why the OP is asking about doing it yourself.

I bought my RJ45 prise murales anly last week at Bricoman and they cost €2.80 each, cheaper than the UK cat 5 sockets that I was going to use.

Stop trying to scare people PP!

[pachapapa]

http://www.belkanto.fr/product.jspr?id_product=1175[:D][:D]

[tj]

joidevie:

there is no law or requirement to employ an electrician!

updating of an existing supply does not need to meet the norms required for a new installation. That means you can dispense with the overkill in regard of tv and telephone points.

My advice though, would be to download a copy of the "norms" and rewire bearing them in mind.

Of course the main thing is that it is wired correctly/ safely,,,,,,,,,,

[Anton Redman II]

There are a number of relatively cheap routes in the UK to become qualified to carry out domestic wiring.

In France working as an electrican takes you down the ten year insurance and therefore suitable experience or qualification route.  When working on your own property probably exposes you to an insurance risk. For instance if you chose to reuse the 1mm wiring which feed some ancient socket and installed a 3 kilowatt electric fire I suspect the insurance company might repudiate you claim or indeed sue you for the fire damage to adjacent buildings.

[Chancer]

[quote user="pachapapa"]http://www.belkanto.fr/product.jspr?id_product=1175[:D][:D][/quote]

€35 say €45 by the time the artisan has put on his mark up

OR - http://www.bricoman.fr/Magasin-Bricolage/electricite/equipements-electriques/appareillages/1033/serie-first.aspx?referenceInterne=434280

€2.80

C'est à vous de choisir [:)]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="pachapapa"]http://www.belkanto.fr/product.jspr?id_product=1175[:D][:D][/quote]

€35 say €45 by the time the artisan has put on his mark up

OR - http://www.bricoman.fr/Magasin-Bricolage/electricite/equipements-electriques/appareillages/1033/serie-first.aspx?referenceInterne=434280

€2.80

C'est à vous de choisir [:)]

[/quote]

Pas du tout.

I dont need telephone Use VOIP Base with two combinés each with charger. I dont need RF TV I live in a HDMI world. I dont need RJ45 LAN connexion I live with a "n" WLAN.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="tj"]joidevie: there is no law or requirement to employ an electrician! updating of an existing supply does not need to meet the norms required for a new installation. That means you can dispense with the overkill in regard of tv and telephone points. My advice though, would be to download a copy of the "norms" and rewire bearing them in mind. Of course the main thing is that it is wired correctly/ safely,,,,,,,,,,[/quote]

OK but if for any reason you require an EDF or other supplier reconnection they wont budge without a Consuel.

[Chancer]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="pachapapa"][:D][:D][/quote]

[/quote]

Pas du tout.

I dont need telephone Use VOIP Base with two combinés each with charger. I dont need RF TV I live in a HDMI world. I dont need RJ45 LAN connexion I live with a "n" WLAN.

[/quote]

Any chance of explaining any of that in English or French?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Chancer"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="pachapapa"][:D][:D][/quote]

[/quote]

Pas du tout.

I dont need telephone Use VOIP Base with two combinés each with charger. I dont need RF TV I live in a HDMI world. I dont need RJ45 LAN connexion I live with a "n" WLAN.

[/quote]

Any chance of explaining any of that in English or French?

[/quote]

Tomorrow mate been watching a live Michel Jarre Concert for two hours still 30 minutes to go.

[Jonzjob]

A little light reading on HDMI Chancer.  http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdmi.htm

[joidevie]

Pretty much what I thought.. And my last place sold without a hitch with both notaires agreeing the the electrics were 'all new'.. It helped that EDF came right at the end to swap the old blue meter for a brand new digi one and connection to the outside main..

[dave21478]

Im in two minds about peoples right to work on their own electrics.

Part of me thinks The Man shold just butt out of our lives and let people get on with things.

Then part of me thinks that a large percentage of the population shouldnt be allowed to use a knife and fork without competant supervision, nevermind carry out mains electrical work.

Today is a shining example. The tennants of a house I manage had skipped out a few months back. EDF removed the big fuse cartridges from the outside box to disconnect the house due to them leaving a bill unpayed.

Today I went round to meet the EDF chap to get it reconnected, and to hack back the jungle that used to be a garden.

He plugged in the fuses and we went inside to check all was ok.

"WOW....errr....I didn't see any of this - good luck." he said, then turned round and left.

The tennants, who "knew what they were doing" have installed this....

Yes, the consumer unit is dangling by the wiring.....

[IMG]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/dave21478/short/DSCF0003Medium.jpg[/IMG]

Live wires hanging everywhere...

[IMG]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/dave21478/short/DSCF0001Medium.jpg[/IMG]

And there are literally dozens of connections like this all over the house....

[IMG]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/dave21478/short/DSCF0004Medium-1.jpg[/IMG]

From what I can gather, this was installed about a year ago, and they lived there with it in this state since then.

[BIG MAC]

Hmmmmm, Shouldn't he have done a visual before replacing the company fuse?

[Jonzjob]

Is that the old consumer unit in the top right of the 1st photo Dave? If so I take it that the wiring was delicately (?) cut???

[dave21478]

What EDF probably should do, and what they really do are generally not the same thing. The chap made no mention of checking anything beforehand and just wanted to see that there was power to inside the house.

Yes, the old unit is in the top right. Its been disconnected from almost everything except for two 1.5mm wires which can just be seen in the pic running to the back of the main switch (centre on the wooden board) so something is obviously still live through the old unit.  The two thicker wires which dangle over the top of the board from the main switch are the live and neutral feed to the new consumer unit. No earthing to be seen anywhere.

[Jonzjob]

And there was me thinking that our various little junction boxes in the walls throughout the house were interesting?

[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Johns/Jar-a-worms.jpg[/IMG]

Text book by comparison!!

[pachapapa]

[quote user="dave21478"]What EDF probably should do, and what they really do are generally not the same thing. The chap made no mention of checking anything beforehand and just wanted to see that there was power to inside the house.

Yes, the old unit is in the top right. Its been disconnected from almost everything except for two 1.5mm wires which can just be seen in the pic running to the back of the main switch (centre on the wooden board) so something is obviously still live through the old unit.  The two thicker wires which dangle over the top of the board from the main switch are the live and neutral feed to the new consumer unit. No earthing to be seen anywhere.

[/quote]

Love the piccy but not requiring a consuel, the sparky from EDF not qualified to do it anyway. Not much else to say. Oh tenant with one "t" and p.p of pay is "paid". Hope you find a good leccy to fix it all.[:)]

Due dilligence for your client and all that...

[BIG MAC]

I think you may find it's 'Leccie' as a generic term

lol

[AnOther]

I thought my electrics were a bodge when I found 2 similar JB's in my house, and wallpapered over too, but have since learnt that not only is it common but entirely normal and acceptable to boot !

I guess in some ways it's to be expected though when UK style ring mains are illegal, why is that I wonder ?

[Jimmy]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Oh tenant with one "t" and p.p of pay is "paid".

[/quote]

That would be "tenan" or perhaps "enant". One that is in the habit of criticising others should make sure they themselves are perfect before doing so.

[tonyv]

[quote user="Jimmy"]One that is in the habit of criticising others should make sure they themselves are perfect before doing so.

[/quote]

That'll be "one who is in the habit..."