suprise costs ?

[caroline]

Hello

I am buying a house in France and I still have a flat in the UK. I know I will have to pay Tax D'Habitation, House Insurance, Utilities - but are there other costs. I was talking recently to someone who said she had friends from the USA who had bought but were now forced to put the property back on the market because of unforeseen taxes. Also is there any sign of Sarkozy trying to extract more money from the 'so-called' wealthy Brits trying to find a peaceful life ?

thank you for all your replies

[AnOther]

I'm not aware of anything which would cause such a drastic about face and I think you can be assured that anything like you suggest would become headline news very quickly.

Not sure how the recent health changes health affect American, if at all.

You need to find out exactly what their problem is.

[groslard]

Of course it depends what they define as "taxes"

There are the two Taxes (foncier and habitation) concerned with your house.

There can be 'Impots sur le revenu' if you are working, or on your pensions

Then there can be other charges, not called taxes, but perceived as such, such as CSG or Social Security charges.

Whether you have to pay these, and which ones depends on your personal circumstances.

[woolybanana]

[quote user="caroline"]

Hello

I am buying a house in France and I still have a flat in the UK. I know I will have to pay Tax D'Habitation, House Insurance, Utilities - but are there other costs. I was talking recently to someone who said she had friends from the USA who had bought but were now forced to put the property back on the market because of unforeseen taxes. Also is there any sign of Sarkozy trying to extract more money from the 'so-called' wealthy Brits trying to find a peaceful life ?

thank you for all your replies

[/quote]

I think this has nothing to do with Sarkozy but may relate to the 1% insurance which is levied in the case of CGT on property at more than 150K€ by notaires and is a sort of guarantee that they have paid the right amount to the state. To my knowledge it is only levied on foreigners and is probably illegal. And the survey is paid for by sellers of course.

[AnOther]

But the story is that they are supposedly selling because of a tax not being taxed because they are selling.

[woolybanana]

Sorry then, I read it wrongly. But there are no unforeseen taxes that I know of.

[groslard]

[quote user="ErnieY"]But the story is that they are supposedly selling because of a tax not being taxed because they are selling.[/quote]

Sounds to me they were just surprised by all the little extras which creep in

[AnOther]

Or maybe hadn't done their research and not realised they would be taxed on worldwide income ?

That could definately make you bail out in a hurry [:-))]

[groslard]

T[6]hat's the sort of thing I meant

[tenniswitch]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Or maybe hadn't done their research and not realised they would be taxed on worldwide income ?

That could definately make you bail out in a hurry [:-))]

[/quote]

I think you're right.  A lot of people (Europeans and Americans) don't understand how the French impots (worldwide income and wealth taxes) affect US citizens. 

There shouldn't be any great surprises regarding the French property taxes, and French impots would not come as a shock to people from the UK who are used to higher income tax rates than most Americans.

We are very careful to make sure that we remain liable for income and "wealth" taxes only in the US.

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="tenniswitch"]We are very careful to make sure that we remain liable for income and "wealth" taxes only in the US.[/quote]Sorry, gotta ask, are you French resident and if so very interesed in how you achieve this [Www] 

[Gardian]

[quote user="caroline"]

.......  friends from the USA who had bought but were now forced to put the property back on the market because of unforeseen taxes.[/quote]

With the greatest possible respect, this is so vague that it's impossible to know precisely what put them off & what their circumstances were. Permanent, or 2nd home?  Well-off, or not particularly?

Or just maybe they thought that France was a tax-free State?

 

[Deimos]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

[quote user="tenniswitch"]We are very careful to make sure that we remain liable for income and "wealth" taxes only in the US.[/quote]Sorry, gotta ask, are you French resident and if so very interesed in how you achieve this [Www] 

[/quote]

When I looked at the US/France dual

taxation treaty/agreement it is complex and not just a straight

forward "worldwide income taxes in France". Some types of

income and assets are taxed in the US, others in France even though

you might be resident in France.

Ian

[tenniswitch]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

[quote user="tenniswitch"]We are very careful to make sure that we remain liable for income and "wealth" taxes only in the US.[/quote]Sorry, gotta ask, are you French resident and if so very interesed in how you achieve this [Www] 

[/quote]

No, we have a maison secondaire in France, but our primary residence is in the US.  We are careful not to stay more than 132 days a year in France or do anything else that would make us liable for French impots.

Ernie, I've heard tales of tax dodges involving accounts in places like Monaco or Lichtenstein, but I haven't a clue as to whether they're feasible for non-bezillionaires, much less legal. 

I don't know any legal way to be a resident of France and avoid French impots, and if I were going to live in France, I would not expect to benefit from the French social and health services without paying French taxes.  But since all our income is derived in the US, as well as health and social benefits, I certainly don't want to become liable for French impots.

Of course, we pay the normal property taxes, etc.

[tenniswitch]

[quote user="Deimos"][quote user="ErnieY"]

[quote user="tenniswitch"]We are very careful to make sure that we remain liable for income and "wealth" taxes only in the US.[/quote]Sorry, gotta ask, are you French resident and if so very interesed in how you achieve this [Www] 

[/quote]

When I looked at the US/France dual taxation treaty/agreement it is complex and not just a straight forward "worldwide income taxes in France". Some types of income and assets are taxed in the US, others in France even though you might be resident in France.

Ian

[/quote]

Yes, I think that it's very complicated, and any US citizen contemplating with significant income/capital/US assets really should be advised by an attorney specializing in these matters.

I've never looked into it seriously because we've never really considered becoming French residents (well, maybe for a few minutes after the 2004 presidential election).

 

[AnOther]

Thanks for the info TW and I'm sure you're 100% kosher in both countries.

Which brings us back to the OP does it not.

Is there some killer "unforseen tax" which can hit unsuspecting Americans who become resident in France ?

[Iceni]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Is there some killer "unforseen tax" which can hit unsuspecting Americans who become resident in France ?

[/quote]

Other than a woefully weak USD ?

John

not

[Kitty]

The estate agent's and notaire's fees (the latter includes purchase taxes, which the notaire collects) are more than you realise.  For my 100,000 euros house purchase, the total fees were 14,000 euros.

 

[Ian]

The "Killer unforseen" tax for most wealthy Americans or any other new France resident is often the wealth tax.  It is probably fair to say that if one is seeking a "low tax" life - France would not be most financial experts residence of choice.  But with prime real estate in low tax Monaco going for up to €25,000 per square metre, Cathy's 100k house would be about the same size as my desk.

[tenniswitch]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Thanks for the info TW and I'm sure you're 100% kosher in both countries.

Which brings us back to the OP does it not.

Is there some killer "unforseen tax" which can hit unsuspecting Americans who become resident in France ?

[/quote]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. [:D]

I'm way too neurotic to go in for a life of crime.  And, while I grumble as much as anyone about paying my taxes, I do believe in progressive taxation to fund social and other services and regret that the civil service has become such a scapegoat in the US. 

I think the killer "unforseen tax" for Americans would be the wealth tax (and the fact that any residence outside of France would be included in that "wealth"). 

I don't know of any state in the US that has a comparable tangible/intangible property tax- especially not at French rates.  And one's annual federal taxes are on income, not wealth.