Instant water heater.

[pachapapa]

I have to replace a small water heater 15 litres, conventional with resistance, I am considering replacing with a HAKL 5.5 KVA instantaneous heater in line with the EDF Base installation i.e. 6 KVA and 30 Amps. Is this a good idea or premature spring madness? Has anyone used one of these things, by the way a DAFI is another alternative at 5.5 KVA marketed in france.Please reply quickly I'm getting fed up heating a kettle every time I need to wash the dishes.[:)]

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

     I have tried several times to translate the above posting using the Google translate button but to no avail ,could some tell me what language it is in so I can download the correct software.

                 Thanks    Dave

[pachapapa]

The woman with the DAFI wont budge on price so only the HAKL is under consideration. The HAKL on offer is a MK 155.

Let me translate HAKL is the manufacturer in sweden the first digit means it is a MK 1 and the two following digits 55 represents the power at 5.5 KW.   The moot point is do you know if these things work?

http://www.hakl.sk/en/p_mk1.php

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

The woman with the DAFI wont budge on price so only the HAKL is under consideration. The HAKL on offer is a MK 155.

Let me translate HAKL is the manufacturer in sweden the first digit means it is a MK 1 and the two following digits 55 represents the power at 5.5 KW.   The moot point is do you know if these things work?

http://www.hakl.sk/en/p_mk1.php

[/quote]

 nope still will not translate to English

if you want to know how to cook water maybe this will help

Procedures

Open your cupboard or wherever it is you store your cookware.

Locate a 12-quart stockpot. If you do not have a 12-quart stockpot, you may use whatever size pot you have; in that event, keep in mind that serving size here is 1 cup and there are 4 cups in a quart. Do the math.

Place your pot in the sink under the tap. If you have never used a sink before, it is the large depression in your counter top. (If you live with someone else, they may have filled it with dirty dishes; in this case, wash them or simply remove them from the sink and place them in the oven — someone else will eventually discover them there and wash them.)

Turn the cold-water knob to the "on" position. Some people (like my dad) prefer to let the water run a little bit. This is optional but encouraged — if it's a hot day or someone has previously used the "hot" water knob, the warmer water will eventually be replaced by truly cold water.

Fill stockpot to within a couple inches of the rim.

Lift stockpot from sink and transfer to stove. (Although appearances may vary, the stove is the thing with 4 or more circular metal bands on top of it; alternately, it may be a completely flat black glass surface. If you are unsure, ask your family, roommate, or neighbor for guidance.)

Find knob on stove that corresponds to the "burner" you have placed your pot on. In addition to words like "Right Front" or "Left Rear," there are usually little pictures near the knobs to indicate position.

Turn knob to "High" and wait until water boils. Depending on strength of your stove and amount of water, the boiling time may vary. Note: DO NOT WATCH THE POT; it will never boil in the event that you do.

Boiled water may be used for any number of applications. Serve hot but do not drink.

Alternate methods

Depending on water application, you may want to salt the water. Do this after the water has come to a boil.

Placing a lid on the pot will help it boil faster, with the additional benefit of blocking water from your line of sight, which, as stated above, inhibits the boiling process

               Dave

   ps you can only get a max 20 amp  trip

[Jay]

Whereas, to facilitate proof of conformity with the essential requirements, it is necessary to have harmonized standards at European level which concern, in particular, the design and composition of instant water heaters so that products complying with them may be assumed to conform to the essential requirements; whereas these standards harmonized at European level are drawn up by private bodies and must remain non-mandatory texts; whereas for that puprose the European Committee for Standardization (CEN) and the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (CENELEC) are recognized as the competent bodies for the adoption of harmonized standards in accordance with the general guidelines for cooperation between the Commission and those two bodies signed on 13 November 1984; whereas, for the purposes of this Directive, a harmonized standard is a technical specification (European standard or harmonization document) adopted by one or both of those bodies upon a remit from the Comomission in accordance with the provisions of Council Directive 83/189/EEC of 28 March 1983 laying down a procedure for the provision of information in the field of technical standards and regulations (5) as last amended by the Act of Accession of Spain and Portugal, and on the basis of the general guidelines.

[pachapapa]

[quote]

               Dave

   ps you can only get a max 20 amp  trip

[/quote]

In France EDF put white plastic boxes on the wall with a little round hole with a black number in it. The white box in my house has got a 30 in the round hole. French friends have told me that they even have white boxes with 45 and even 60 in the round hole.

[Théière]

[quote user="pachapapa"]Please reply quickly I'm getting fed up heating a kettle every time I need to wash the dishes.[:)][/quote]

Have you tried paper plates?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Jay"]Whereas, to facilitate proof of conformity with the essential requirements, it is necessary to have harmonized standards at European level which concern, in particular, the design and composition of instant water heaters [/quote]

trips off the tongue better in french

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode=dbl&lang=en&ihmlang=en&lng1=en,fr&lng2=bg,cs,da,de,el,en,es,et,fi,fr,hu,it,lt,lv,mt,nl,pl,pt,ro,sk,sl,sv,&val=129365:cs&page=

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

[quote]

               Dave

   ps you can only get a max 20 amp  trip

[/quote]

In France EDF put white plastic boxes on the wall with a little round hole with a black number in it. The white box in my house has got a 30 in the round hole. French friends have told me that they even have white boxes with 45 and even 60 in the round hole.

[/quote]

 hi ok

        true..... but that's the power to the house ........your water heater needs a " disconjoncteur divisionaire" they only come max 20 amp ...but you knew that , because in another post you said you are a fully qualified engineer ????

              ttfn and    dsyg

                                Dave

      

          

[Alex H]

[quote user="pachapapa"]I have to replace a small water heater 15 litres, conventional with resistance, I am considering replacing with a HAKL 5.5 KVA instantaneous heater in line with the EDF Base installation i.e. 6 KVA and 30 Amps. Is this a good idea or premature spring madness? Has anyone used one of these things, by the way a DAFI is another alternative at 5.5 KVA marketed in france.Please reply quickly I'm getting fed up heating a kettle every time I need to wash the dishes.[:)][/quote]

We had one of these heaters over the sink - only 2kw though. Why would you need to 'instantaneously' heat 15 litres?

What happens is that all the time the heater is on, (and it is usually on all the time) the 15 litres in the tank is hot, so unless you want to fill a bath, your solution is a bit OTT.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Tandem_Pilot"][quote user="pachapapa"]I have to replace a small water heater 15 litres, conventional with resistance, I am considering replacing with a HAKL 5.5 KVA instantaneous heater in line with the EDF Base installation i.e. 6 KVA and 30 Amps. Is this a good idea or premature spring madness? Has anyone used one of these things, by the way a DAFI is another alternative at 5.5 KVA marketed in france.Please reply quickly I'm getting fed up heating a kettle every time I need to wash the dishes.[:)][/quote]

We had one of these heaters over the sink - only 2kw though. Why would you need to 'instantaneously' heat 15 litres?

What happens is that all the time the heater is on, (and it is usually on all the time) the 15 litres in the tank is hot, so unless you want to fill a bath, your solution is a bit OTT.


[/quote]

The flange with resistance and thermo is leaking; Carrefour no longer deal with supplier in Italy; I have been unable to source a replacement.

The 15 litres just happens to be the size of the small water heater, I bought two as the second is used with a shower, a showering requires nominally 30 litres. As replacement I have identified a 15 litre "sous evier" and the HAKL noted above. The HAKL would serve one sink only in the scullery for washing up.   The HAKL woud take a nominal 24 Amps and would require some minor changes to the electrics. I am concerned about the practicalities of use with regard to only having an EDF base connection with a maximum of 30 Amps. Thanks for your reply, I actually thought there might have been more info on the forum on such units as in the UK there seem to be Tritons hanging off bathroom walls adjacent to a 200 litre stone cold imlmersion tank.

Would you use one again? Did it present problems? Perhaps teapot could design a "bouilloire" that would tip into the sink on boiling!

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Théière"]

[quote user="pachapapa"]Please reply quickly I'm getting fed up heating a kettle every time I need to wash the dishes.[:)][/quote]

Have you tried paper plates?

[/quote]

No I haven't! What a good idea!

[Pickles]

[quote user="pachapapa"]I actually thought there might have been more info on the forum on such units as in the UK there seem to be Tritons hanging off bathroom walls adjacent to a 200 litre stone cold imlmersion tank.

Would you use one again? Did it present problems? Perhaps teapot could design a "bouilloire" that would tip into the sink on boiling![/quote]

In the UK, the power rating of instantaneous shower heaters has gone up and up over the years, and now if you want what would be considered a decent flow rate the electric shower power rating seems to be around 9KW. However you don't need that flow rate for a hand wash basin, and the ones sold in the UK for that purpose are typically between 3.5-6KW and are perfectly adequate for the job. The lower powered ones would take a while to fill a Belfast sink, though.

Regards

Pickles

[Alex H]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Would you use one again? Did it present problems?

[/quote]

Not a chance. I think they are OK for caravans and workshops, but unsightly in kitchens.

Also there is an annoying habit of dripping constantly from the 'groupe de securite' - seems to be normal as my neighbours versions do the same

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Tandem_Pilot"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Would you use one again? Did it present problems?

[/quote]

Not a chance. I think they are OK for caravans and workshops, but unsightly in kitchens.

Also there is an annoying habit of dripping constantly from the 'groupe de securite' - seems to be normal as my neighbours versions do the same

[/quote]

Thanks for info...I rather thought if they were any good there would be lots all over the place; spoke to a neighbour who says that with 24 A I will need at least 4 mil cable at 3 € a metre and a few other bits as well , maybe 200 € .

OK I will source a conventional ballon.

[Badger LX]

To quote Dave: " true..... but that's the power to the house ........your water heater

needs a " disconjoncteur divisionaire" they only come max 20 amp......"

Dave - I'm not sure where you get your information from as I have personally fitted plenty of disjoncteurs above 20A i.e. 32A, 40A, 50A, 63A, 80A, 100A etc., etc.

To the OP - Personally I think that instantaneous water heaters on a domestic scale are a waste of time on many levels, & in France they just don't add up with keeping your overall "abonnement" at a sensible level.

You are probably better off having a decent small "sous-évier" unit that has a "groupe de securité" that drains like a normal ballon, therefore you don't have the dripping associated with above sink units, or the large electrical load.

[Keni]

We have a gas water heater above the kitchen sink, with a gas bottle underneath. It is designed for showers, looks ok and heats enough water for our daily use - instantaneous.

Simples (and cheap).

[pachapapa]

Thanks Badger.

Just arranged to pick up a 15 litre "sous evier" from a local vendor on le bon coin.

Only 20 kms away in La Vienne and also a vineyard there that does reasonable Cabernet Franc and Merlot.

Double Whammy.[:)]

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="Badger LX"]To quote Dave: " true..... but that's the power to the house ........your water heater needs a " disconjoncteur divisionaire" they only come max 20 amp......"

Dave - I'm not sure where you get your information from as I have personally fitted plenty of disjoncteurs above 20A i.e. 32A, 40A, 50A, 63A, 80A, 100A etc., etc.

To the OP - Personally I think that instantaneous water heaters on a domestic scale are a waste of time on many levels, & in France they just don't add up with keeping your overall "abonnement" at a sensible level.

You are probably better off having a decent small "sous-évier" unit that has a "groupe de securité" that drains like a normal ballon, therefore you don't have the dripping associated with above sink units, or the large electrical load.
[/quote]

  hi ok

                 educate me ...would like to know what power  interrupter differentiel you are using to run these 100 amp dis joncteurs

                     Dave

[Badger LX]

I suspect we are talking at cross purposes here, but the answer to your immediate question is "one that can handle the maximum current rating of the disjoncteur/s that follow it"..........?

I do get involved with stuff on a commercial/industrial scale as well as domestic.

[Chancer]

Dave&Olive

I have asked this a couple of times before and still hope to get a reply.

Given that you asked what language the first post was because you couldnt understand it, what does the "Hi OK" that you type before all your postings signify?

I have been away from the UK a long time and it confuses the hell out of me, is it text speak?

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

 did you ever here about the boy who wanted for his birthday  a yellow ping pong ball   ????

               Dave

[pachapapa]

[IMG]http://www.fa.hku.hk/hkaa/pics/027w018.jpg[/IMG]