Oboulez Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 We are considering buying an unfinished barn conversion (approx 210m2 habital area) and currently doing our sums. It is fitted with radiators an pipework is in place, however there is no boiler. Can anybody give us a very rough guesstimation of how much an oil / gas boiler and tank would cost including installation. Also, which is better - oil or gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Consider air source heat pump ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brown Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hi Louise & Gary,If you give me the size of the radiators I can work out the Boiler size for you. Whether they will heat the rooms adequately is a different matterMy new combi 10 kw gas boiler ( from the UK ) fitted by a registered Plumber and certified by Qualigaz cost £2500. Included relocation into a different roomGas Tank requires a £2000 deposit with the Gas SupplierJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 You can get a tax rebate if you buy a combi boiler in France, either gas or oil. Not sure of prices though, but I would guess more expensive than UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 [quote user="Théière"]Consider air source heat pump ?[/quote]Beat me to it, with the current prices of oil and gas plus the possibility of them increasing quite a bit over coming years this may be a far better route. According The Energy Saving Trust it could save you a considerable amount of money over Gas or Oil based systems. Worth having a look at.As a side issue I can now categorically state that my electricity bill (our main heating source) has dropped by 36% over the previous year (2010) and this year we have fitted them to the bedrooms and bathrooms so I anticipate that this figure should become 40% plus for 2012. Our previous bill was just over 1,200 Euros per year and dropped to just over 760 Euros (should add there was an electricity price rise during this period). The payback on all the units, I estimate, will be 3.26 years.Worth a look I would say and mine are not the most eficient units (Brico Depot) newer ones are more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brown Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 We had a very enjoyable week with you this summer and I can see how you will be able to hide the heat source pump units from view but I find them ugly and industrial It will be interesting to hear if your future guests comment on the background noise they makeDo they make them in any other colour than white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 If you don't want to use pre filled pipes then you can have the outside units some way away from the inside unit. The majority of guests will come in the summer and will not use them anyway. Those that come when they might need them for heating will not hear them unless they have the windows open which rather defeats having the heating on.You could always spray them whatever colour you want or alternatively put them in a wooden box with vents in the right places. To be honest the noise has never been an issue and the river being so close would drown out any noise they may make. As to the inside units, well the fridge and/or dishwasher makes more noise.Glad you enjoyed the stay and thanks for the review by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 [quote user="John Brown"] edited quote.... and I can see how you will be able to hide the heat source pump units from view but I find them ugly and industrial ....[/quote]I find big fuel bills quite ugly and you can't hide those! [:P] If I was fitting new central heating now I'd certainly examine the feasibility of heat pumps more closely. [geek] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oboulez Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Thanks for responses so far. Regarding radiator and room sizes, there are 3 average sized bedrooms. The dining and kitchen areas are open plan (with rads), and the living area absolutely ginormous. There are a couple of huge radiators mounted vertically there on the walls, each a good 1.5m x 1m. JB mentions the deposit for a gas takk - I take it you essentially rent it? Re heat pump heating, we had a walk through of the property with a builder and we discussed possible boiler options. He suggested that a heat pump was not efficient unless there was under floor heating????? We really are just after fag packet ideas as to boiler costs, as all the other things which need doing to finish the property - or at least make it habitable, are adding up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 To work out the boiler size needed you need to do a full analysis of the heat required in the house, this means calculating using the u value of the structure, each room size, window sizes and relevant heat loss values, insulation etc etc. Radiator size alone will never give you an accurate result unless the original rads were specified following a proper heat calculation.Its not particularly difficult to do the heat calcs, just basic maths and a logical approach, plus of course the basic data. My personal preference for CH is via wood pellet burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 But for that you depend on a few suppliers and are as subject to price fluctuations as with oil and gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Big push for condenser boilers in France at the moment but I guess that they too depend eventually on the rising price of fossil fuels. But are they that efficient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You can get boilers with gas or oil burner units for as little as 2000€. We had ours fitted before we actually moved in and we were ripped off! It's not big enough really. While it's still working I'm not going to change it. Some of the French boilers are HUGE, like telephone boxes; I've never seen anything like them before, especially when you're used to those compact wall gas units in UK. A condensation boiler by Chappee could cost 7000-8000€ but you could get a tax rebate (was 40% a couple of years ago, not sure now).Underfloor heating by hot water piping uses water at lower temperature than standard radiator systems, typically around 30-40 degrees and is thus very suitable for heat pumps which can produce water to those temperatures, so that's probably why it was suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Our Chapee boiler cost about 4000e 5 years ago . The total cost of boiler, fitting of the boiler, radiators and pipework in a house 140sq.m, was 9000e.We got a tax rebate of 800e.We didn't have to pay a deposit for the gas tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brown Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 We've seen a big saving ( up to 25%) on the gas we have used since we had the new boiler fitted in February but I'll need to wait till I have the tank filled to work out the annual savingTwo of the reasons for having a condensing combi boiler from the UK was the compact size and the aftersales service.The deposit for the tank ( one ton capacity, buried in the garden ) is refunded when / if I sell the house. Not sure if I have to dig it up then ! Hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My neighbour had a Chappee boiler (oil) fitted recently, it's a condensation type "Bora". The boiler was 7500€ and you can see the prices here.http://www.chappee.com/FIOUL/Bora%20HTE/Prime-Casse-BoraHTE.htmlCurrently there is a special offer reducing the total bill by 1050€. I think you must have had a different type of boiler Patf? Chappee have always been expensive.I'm always baffled by the complicated mixing systems for the central heating in French houses, and the size of these boilers (admittedly they usually have a 100L domestic hot water tank inside) is astounding! English houses would never have room for anything like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Our Chapee gas boiler is a Luna Duo 3.33H, condensation. and it was 3300e, not 4000.And the total billwas 6185e not 9000.But this was from 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thanks PatF, not that I can afford to change my boiler just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 A friend of ours is having a heat pump fitted and doesn't have underfloor heating, so I guess it's not needed?[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 [quote user="LouiseNGary"]Re heat pump heating, we had a walk through of the property with a builder and we discussed possible boiler options. He suggested that a heat pump was not efficient unless there was under floor heating????? [/quote]Ah one of the classic lines from a builder...............Another one is "they don't make them anymore so I'll have to replace the whole thing"..............Oh boy was he p1ssed off when I returned from the shops 30mins later with the correct part to finish the job. Still that's how I win customers and contracts [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canard Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 On the subject of air source heat pumps.... They work at lower temperatures than oil or as boilers so that's why they're best suited to underfloor heating. Radiators attached to an air source heat pump have to be oversized to kick out enough heat.The alternative may be heat pumps that are filled with CO2 rather than refrigerant but last time I looked they were pretty expensive.*written from memory from our research 2 years ago - just waiting on EDF installing 3 phase and I'll let you know if it works!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hi,Under floor heating with air pump (rather than a ground pump ) .. any idea of the cost of such a unit, thinking about a floor area of 150 sq mI am assuming we will need other source of heat in addition to that. Insulation isnt brilliant and tall ceilings. rgds Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canard Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'll take a really rough guess of 15,000 euros supplied and installed but there's so many knowledgeable posters on here you should probably wait for their answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote user="canard"]I'll take a really rough guess of 15,000 euros supplied and installed but there's so many knowledgeable posters on here you should probably wait for their answer.[/quote]thankyou.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote user="canard"]On the subject of air source heat pumps.... They work at lower temperatures than oil or as boilers so that's why they're best suited to underfloor heating. Radiators attached to an air source heat pump have to be oversized to kick out enough heat. The alternative may be heat pumps that are filled with CO2 rather than refrigerant but last time I looked they were pretty expensive. *written from memory from our research 2 years ago - just waiting on EDF installing 3 phase and I'll let you know if it works!![/quote]Or a heat pump with a conventional boiler to top-up the temperature for radiators?We have underfloor (water) heating in the extension to our house (100 sq m) because it was convenient to install while the floor was being laid. It works a treat and I wish it was practical to install it in the other half of the property, but it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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