Déclaration de travaux

[Bill]

Am I right in saying

you dont need this unless you have work that requires a planning permission ,

 

we are not extending, we are not adding windows, we are not changing doors, we are not adding floor space

 

someone we are employing is saying, we need to ask the major/majorie  for a  Déclaration de travaux

 

We already did and he said we do not need to have any planning permissions..

I think the buiolder is very wrong.. ???

 

rgds

Bill

[BJSLIV]

You've told us what you aren't doing, but it would be easier to comment if you told us what you are doing.

[pachapapa]

Perhaps the buiolder has installed one teeny-weeny cold water tap.

[BJSLIV]

Perhaps the major doesn't mind Brits colonelising his area.

[Bill]

To be fair I have asked this question before, came to a  conclusion we didn't need a planning permission , the major confirms, and  I  was quite rattled when  the builder came up with the comment, and I just jumped into the forum .

 

My previous post was here..

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1/2637090/ShowPost.aspx#2637090

 

EVERYONE  including the mayor have been outstandingly wonderfull , not at all French  like !!!!  :)

 

The work we area doing is possibly an air to air inverter, wood burners in existing chimneys, replace window or two as is but PVC 80 percent of the windows  are already PVC , replace door ,  replacement wooden floor , dry line/insulate  (?) , fosse,  replacement  internal doors,  new kitchen remnents of one exists  ,  2 baths  one replaces a bath and one replaces an old upstairs kitchen ,  rewire. decorate and the builder keeps telling me it will take more than three weeks !!!

no longer in France and all by remote control, which may prove difficult

 

rgds

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[andyh4]

Changing the number of bathrooms?

I would be pretty certain that required a declaration.

[Quillan]

The new or replacement 'fosse' may be the issue what with all the current regs etc.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"]The new or replacement 'fosse' may be the issue what with all the current regs etc.[/quote]

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

Even if there has been no PC or DPT, from the list stated above there have been changes requiring the submission of an HI to the local taxation authority.

At the same time Bill would be able to get a copy of the existing H1 and the calculation sheet used by the taxation authority in establishing the current taxation regime.

In answer to a PM, the local taxes are based on the nominal VL i.e. the rental value of the property; this will vary according to the lettable area of the property, the location of the property, etc.

France is no different: a 200 M2 penthouse in Knightsbridge will enjoy greater local taxation then a "pied-à-terre" of similar dimensions next to the station goods yard in Tonypandy. 

 

[Bill]

 PC or DPT, HI ,   sorry what do they mean . ?

 

this place used to be  owned by the commune and  rented out.

 

Bill

[BIG MAC]

'Tonypandy' what does that mean?

[Benjamin]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]'Tonypandy' what does that mean?[/quote]

You're getting there BIG MAC.    [:D]

You'll soon be in a position to join the band of truly unhinged on this forum.    [Www]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]'Tonypandy' what does that mean?[/quote]

Tonypandy, Rhondda Cynon Taf 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Bill"]

 PC or DPT, HI ,   sorry what do they mean . ?

 

this place used to be  owned by the commune and  rented out.

 

Bill

[/quote]

PC permis de construire.

DPT declaration préalable de travaux.

Note the changes in force on 1st march 2012, in box at top (referred to recently in another thread)

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F17578.xhtml

H1 a standard form for entering details of a property for submission to land taxation authority.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168.pdf

[Bill]

[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Bill"]

 PC or DPT, HI ,   sorry what do they mean . ?

 

this place used to be  owned by the commune and  rented out.

 

Bill

[/quote]

PC permis de construire.

DPT declaration préalable de travaux.

Note the changes in force on 1st march 2012, in box at top (referred to recently in another thread)

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F17578.xhtml

H1 a standard form for entering details of a property for submission to land taxation authority.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168.pdf

[/quote]

 

and your earlier mail said..

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

 

The fosse is a replacement of one that is already there, but the one there is not to standard ( allegedly,  seems to work fine by me ! ) apprntly there is no discussion possible. ie to make the current one work   (???)  Spanc have said, so that's it... Period  

 

 

Even if there has been no PC or DPT, from the list stated above there have been changes requiring the submission of an HI to the local taxation authority.

No changes since the commune owned it .

 

U see if it can be counted as just updating  what is already there, which really is what we are doing  , then  I don't need to enter the  arena of all the foms, that you then list & swiftly glanced thru.. .. 

 

 

At the same time Bill would be able to get a copy of the existing H1 and the calculation sheet used by the taxation authority in establishing the current taxation regime.

hum haa... hate asking the tax man if he has had enough !!!  or does the mayor have that figure ?  but again   this is exactly the  the same as has been  since 1985 ,  at which point it was a school .

 

further thoughts  ??   some times  I have to be beaten to death  with a blunt instrument. [blink]

 

Bill

 

 

[andyh4]

Form H1

Page 3

section 41

Number of bathrooms - change of number by your admission

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Bill"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Bill"]

 PC or DPT, HI ,   sorry what do they mean . ?

 

this place used to be  owned by the commune and  rented out.

 

Bill

[/quote]

PC permis de construire.

DPT declaration préalable de travaux.

Note the changes in force on 1st march 2012, in box at top (referred to recently in another thread)

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F17578.xhtml

H1 a standard form for entering details of a property for submission to land taxation authority.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168.pdf

[/quote]

 

and your earlier mail said..

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

 

The fosse is a replacement of one that is already there, but the one there is not to standard ( allegedly,  seems to work fine by me ! ) apprntly there is no discussion possible. ie to make the current one work   (???)  Spanc have said, so that's it... Period  

 

 

Even if there has been no PC or DPT, from the list stated above there have been changes requiring the submission of an HI to the local taxation authority.

No changes since the commune owned it .

 

U see if it can be counted as just updating  what is already there, which really is what we are doing  , then  I don't need to enter the  arena of all the foms, that you then list & swiftly glanced thru.. .. 

 

 

At the same time Bill would be able to get a copy of the existing H1 and the calculation sheet used by the taxation authority in establishing the current taxation regime.

hum haa... hate asking the tax man if he has had enough !!!  or does the mayor have that figure ?  but again   this is exactly the  the same as has been  since 1985 ,  at which point it was a school .

 

further thoughts  ??   some times  I have to be beaten to death  with a blunt instrument. [blink]

 

Bill

 

 

[/quote]

A repeat from earlier in the thread.

Even if there has been no PC or DPT, from the list stated above there have been changes requiring the submission of an HI to the local taxation authority.

I suggest you print a copy of the Declaration H1 and hang it in the loo for intermittent study.;)

[Bill]

Thankyou everyone ...   I am crystal clear  now.. 

 

rgds

Bill

[Loiseau]

[quote user="Bill"] 

...and your earlier mail said..

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

The fosse is a replacement of one that is already there, but the one there is not to standard ( allegedly,  seems to work fine by me ! ) apprntly there is no discussion possible. ie to make the current one work   (???)  Spanc have said, so that's it... Period  

[/quote]

Yes, that's the power SPANC has, apparently.  (My installation was inspected by them recently; luckily it was a new enough one to satisfy the current criteria.)

I was told that they cannot force the present owner to undertake the upgrading/renewal required, but the obligation rests on a new owner of the property to do it immediately.  So I should think a Declaration of the work would be necessary, as it may have a new position, or new filters etc that would be laid out differently to the original.

Angela

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Loiseau"][quote user="Bill"] 
...and your earlier mail said..

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

The fosse is a replacement of one that is already there, but the one there is not to standard ( allegedly,  seems to work fine by me ! ) apprntly there is no discussion possible. ie to make the current one work   (???)  Spanc have said, so that's it... Period  

[/quote]

Yes, that's the power SPANC has, apparently.  (My installation was inspected by them recently; luckily it was a new enough one to satisfy the current criteria.)
I was told that they cannot force the present owner to undertake the upgrading/renewal required, but the obligation rests on a new owner of the property to do it immediately.  So I should think a Declaration of the work would be necessary, as it may have a new position, or new filters etc that would be laid out differently to the original.

Angela
[/quote]

The rectification of an existing assainissement non collectif does not come under a PC or DPT; the spirit of the law and applicable regulations allows the controlling authority to rectify the system adequately whilst retaining as much as possible of the existing system. This policy is favourably followed in the case of systems which were in compliance with the regulations current at the time of installation. I do not like the use of the word "fosse" to describe a system but it unfortunately seems to be common currency with British Expatriates; with that semantic distinction in mind, it may have been that Bills system ( a school earlier, agh you had forgotten!) could well have had a separate grey water effluent sub system for the showers and ablutions with a fosse exclusively for the "caca" and of inadequate volumetric capacity for a modern " toutes eaux" system.

[DraytonBoy]

[quote user="Loiseau"][quote user="Bill"] 
...and your earlier mail said..

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

The fosse is a replacement of one that is already there, but the one there is not to standard ( allegedly,  seems to work fine by me ! ) apprntly there is no discussion possible. ie to make the current one work   (???)  Spanc have said, so that's it... Period  

[/quote]

Yes, that's the power SPANC has, apparently.  (My installation was inspected by them recently; luckily it was a new enough one to satisfy the current criteria.)
I was told that they cannot force the present owner to undertake the upgrading/renewal required, but the obligation rests on a new owner of the property to do it immediately.  So I should think a Declaration of the work would be necessary, as it may have a new position, or new filters etc that would be laid out differently to the original.

Angela
[/quote] My understanding is that once the four year notice period has expired owners can be penalised for not upgrading. Otherwise what's the point of giving people a certain length of time to get things done.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="DraytonBoy"][quote user="Loiseau"][quote user="Bill"] 
...and your earlier mail said..

The fosse would only come under a PC if it was a new build, if for an existing property adding a fosse then a DPT would suffice.

The fosse is a replacement of one that is already there, but the one there is not to standard ( allegedly,  seems to work fine by me ! ) apprntly there is no discussion possible. ie to make the current one work   (???)  Spanc have said, so that's it... Period  

[/quote]

Yes, that's the power SPANC has, apparently.  (My installation was inspected by them recently; luckily it was a new enough one to satisfy the current criteria.)
I was told that they cannot force the present owner to undertake the upgrading/renewal required, but the obligation rests on a new owner of the property to do it immediately.  So I should think a Declaration of the work would be necessary, as it may have a new position, or new filters etc that would be laid out differently to the original.

Angela
[/quote] My understanding is that once the four year notice period has expired owners can be penalised for not upgrading. Otherwise what's the point of giving people a certain length of time to get things done.[/quote]

have you any reference for the penalties applied to the refractory owner of the property; at the local bar the opinion was generally that the commune could do the works and then charge the owner or if necessary put a lien/charge on the property making it impossible to sell; of course in a serious case affecting public health then the property would be declared unfit for human occupation and the owner would only be able to return to live in the property on satisfactory completion of the sanitary unstallation.

[Bill]

we are doing the fosse, so no fears.   Just seems odd that unable to use part of the stystem that may be "A OK " & no discussion  at all. However when in Rome.....

 

rgds  B ill

 

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Bill"]

we are doing the fosse, so no fears.   Just seems odd that unable to use part of the stystem that may be "A OK " & no discussion  at all. However when in Rome.....

 

rgds  B ill

 

 

[/quote]

Received below as courriel...I must have entered wrong address;

When you get the copy of the H1 go through it section by section and compare with the school house; if it matches up then the taxation probably reflects the current situation. There is another calculation sheet which the tax people use to work out the regime due to be paid. This second form is ONLY necessary IF there has been a manifest error in calculating the tax. But the improvements done will change the desirability of the property to a prospective renter, so more nominal rent would be applicable. An open log fire and state of the art heat pump underfloor heating are not the same. Cheers, malcolm.

[Bill]

we are not going to do state of the art anything really, . Started to back track a little with the specification as no real point. This is not a prime first  home, but we do need to make it comfortable

 

 

happy days and thanks again.