Gate mechanism - FAO Chancer.

[dave21478]

So my boss has asked me to motorise two gates on the property...Chancer, I see you have good background in this field so would appreciate advice and tips, and if anyone else has suggestions please do post them.

I apologise for the shoddy pictures, it was sleeting heavily and I was shivering like an abused chihuahua.

So first up....the tradesman's entrance. No that's not a euphemism. The side access gate....

[img]http://s17.postimage.org/yfqifx7a7/P1000626.jpg[/img]

[img]http://s11.postimage.org/h947k9ogj/P1000627.jpg[/img]

Metal gate, the leaves are 1.8m long each and a touch under 2 m high at the highest point, opening inwards. They are quite heavy, I would guess about 80 - 100 kgs per leaf.

This gate is already motorised, but the system is kaput. Its a hydraulic system by FAAC and was installed I would guess 20+ years ago. It seems to have had 16 years of poor maintenance, a few years inactivity while the property was empty and now the new owner is in, its all fallen apart. The key fobs disintegrated, I rebuilt one ram with new seals and bearings, the other is now leaking too, the main circuit board burned out and now one of the pumps has packed up. I am sick of it and the owners is sick of it so it's getting changed, but not for another hydraulic system. This one has a electromechanical latch on one leaf that engages in a plate in the ground, but there is enough free play in the splined shaft and top hinge that I can jerk the gate up over the latch and it can then just be pushed open, forcing the oil backwards through the circuit - hopeless security-wise.

[img]http://s3.postimage.org/m7jg4gmib/P1000628.jpg[/img]

[img]http://s12.postimage.org/knlil466l/P1000629.jpg[/img]

As I understand it, most underground electrical mechanisms are geared so they can not be pushed open?

I found this website.... www.gatemotors.co.uk no idea if they are any good, but the website seems useful, plus they will deliver to France. I tried looking locally but it was completely futile - disinterested vendeurs pedaling stuff at two and three times the prices of UK.

This first kit looks ok....

http://www.gatemotors.co.uk/page-194-2-4

Whats the difference between 230v and 24v systems? I assume the 24v motors use a transformer in the control box? what are the advantages to justify a hefty price hike?

This is where we got the main problem - there is no wiring to the existing rams. There are two pumps in the control box behind the wall and 2 copper pipes going to each gate ram. However, any new system will need wiring. I would rather not be lifting the cobbles here, and passing a cable through / under the wall will be hellish - its about 1.5m thick.The copper pipes are in standard grey plastic gaines...they are larger than car brake pipes - perhaps small-bore central heating pipe. Plan A is to attach a string to one end and pull the pipe back out of the gaine. it MIGHT be flexible enough to pull out and I have a decent hand winch to persuade it if needed. I can then pull the cables back through the gaine. I am not sure of the chances of success here. I would have two chances per side to get it right. Plan B depends on what type of wiring goes to the motors. I believe I could slip a normal 1.5mm (perhaps 2.5mm?) single strand copper wire down inside each pipe, giving me two wires to each leaf, plus the copper itself could be used as an earth conductor if needed. However, I dont know what spec wiring these gate motors require. Not exactly conforming to electrical normes, but it might work?

I can make up a bush to eliminate the free play in the top hinge and the centre stop on the ground is a sturdy thing that can be left in place. I dont know if an electric latch would be needed on these gates? The website suggests only needed for much longer leaves. There is multi-core cable to the existing photosensors which I can probably re-use for the new ones.

Anything else I need to think about?

Next is the main entrance. Its somewhat grander....

[img]http://s7.postimage.org/mcaeavb8r/P1000630.jpg[/img]

[img]http://s9.postimage.org/n5piw85v3/P1000631.jpg[/img]

The leaves are 1.8m long and 2.3m high. I dont know what kind of wood it is, but they are 10cm thick. I would guess very heavy indeed.

There are 2 huge hinges per leaf...

[img]http://s12.postimage.org/k6nfw7c5p/P1000633.jpg[/img]

It opens inwards. Whoever put this up did a decent job, the leaves are very well hung and move very freely, although due to their weight, have huge momentum. There is no sign of any movement over the years, but this gate doesnt seem to have had much use. The wood has swollen slightly so they catch a bit in the middle and at the top, but its nothing an electric planer wont fix. The outside of the gates is very sheltered so no chance of wind buffeting. Wind can blow down the drive and onto the backs of the gates, but the way the frame is made and a central stop on the ground mean they will not budge outwards at all.

This would be a fresh install so the cobbles will have to come up to run cables etc. I plan to weld two angle irons to forum a U channel which I will bolt to the bottom edge of the gates to fix the motors to. The owner wants it all to be as discreet as possible.

The first problem I see is that the centre-line of the hinges is VERY close to the wall - about 30mm max. To fit an underground motor will require the hole to undercut the wall somewhat to allow the motor shaft to be aligned with the hinges. A bit of a faff, but not impossible I would say.

However, I was browsing a bricoshed the other day and spotted their gate demo units. One of which was mounted off-centre from the axis of the hinges. There was a slotted section fixed to the gate and the end of the motors arm had a nylon bush that ran in this slot. Is this feasible on gates this size?

This kit seems up to the job....

http://www.gatemotors.co.uk/page-197-2-4

A useful feature is that it can be set to accelerate and decelerate gently at the end of each movement.

Anything else I should be thinking about?

Generally speaking - how many accessories can be added to these things? The metal gates at least would ideally have a code keypad both inside and outside to allow authorised people to pass without a fob, and possibly a ground loop sensor on the inside further up the driveway to let guest vehicles exit without needing a fob or the code. The driveway is currently gravel (well, mud just now, but it is supposed to be gravel!) but will eventually be cobbled, so this needs to be done and working reliably before the cobbles are done.

On a similar note, what sort of thing should I be looking for in a videophone type of system? Both gates are a fair way from the main building, so a camera and buzzer at the gate connected to a screen inside the house where the owner can talk to arriving people and open the gates remotely would be ideal. Is this sort of thing available in wireless form? Running cables from gate to house would be a herculean task that I really dont fancy doing.

Thanks,

[Chancer]

Been entertaining this evening so too late to digest all of the above and reply, I have got the gist of it and have an answer to all your questions but it will be a long posting.

What I propose is tomorrow I will go through it in detail and give a general reply to each question but avoid the detail, I will then PM you my contact info so we can discuss the finer points once you have had a chance to digest the general replies.

I have come up againts and resolved all the issues before that you mention, a practical guy with the skillset you have could make a good living in this trade in the UK, I certainly did as like you I was happy to launch myself at all the trades involved and the other companies had to sub out most of them, given the job mindset in France I can only think that you would have an even greater competitive advantage over here.

So this will be at the least an interesting project for you (and will help me retrieve some hidden away knowledge) but who knows may even lead to your next venture, its definitely your kind of thing. 

[Théière]

We are waiting Yoda

[Chancer]

OK here we go, I will do this in a few stages to prevent it from being an epic plus I must really have a work break today as I have got next to nothing done so far!

Not in great detail as I mentioned.

 

[quote user="dave21478"]
Metal gate, the leaves are 1.8m long each and a touch under 2 m high at the highest point, opening inwards. They are quite heavy, I would guess about 80 - 100 kgs per leaf.

Thats nothing to a gate motor, most of them are rated to 2.5 or 3M leaf width and between from 350 - 800kg, the motor power is a function of the moment of inertia (yours is next to nothing) however the strength of the operator and its self locking is a function of the leaf length, leverage when forced or hit by a vehicle, the most destructive force being windage on close boarded gates. 

This gate is already motorised, but the system is kaput. Its a hydraulic system by FAAC and was installed I would guess 20+ years ago. It seems to have had 16 years of poor maintenance, a few years inactivity while the property was empty and now the new owner is in, its all fallen apart. The key fobs disintegrated, I rebuilt one ram with new seals and bearings, the other is now leaking too, the main circuit board burned out and now one of the pumps has packed up. I am sick of it and the owners is sick of it so it's getting changed, but not for another hydraulic system. This one has a electromechanical latch on one leaf that engages in a plate in the ground, but there is enough free play in the splined shaft and top hinge that I can jerk the gate up over the latch and it can then just be pushed open, forcing the oil backwards through the circuit - hopeless security-wise.

What you have is the absolute top of the range and I would not discount replacing it with another, Faac is the best company by far and their products the best, you will certainly be able to buy new interchangeable actuators, the pumps are probably fine but the new type have the self locking function, I agree the central solenoid locks are a pain in the butt and a chocolate teapot. There is also now the option of a monobloc unit where the pump and actuator are combined, not sure if it will be compatible with your floorbox or the splined collar on the gate, the latter probably, when I say now remember that my knowledge is 8 years old, I still have an account with Faac and they regularly send me updates, they will not ever sell to anything but their distributors or installers.

The only times I have ever seen a Faac controller burnt out I have been able to smell the reason from 10 yards, roasted slug!! On one job I could not find the control box to reprogram the gate logic, it had been bricked up in the pillar 15 years before!

 

As I understand it, most underground electrical mechanisms are geared so they can not be pushed open?
I found this website.... www.gatemotors.co.uk no idea if they are any good, but the website seems useful, plus they will deliver to France. I tried looking locally but it was completely futile - disinterested vendeurs pedaling stuff at two and three times the prices of UK.
This first kit looks ok....
http://www.gatemotors.co.uk/page-194-2-4
Whats the difference between 230v and 24v systems? I assume the 24v motors use a transformer in the control box? what are the advantages to justify a hefty price hike?

Havnt looked at the site yet, 24vdc was just coming in when I got out of the game, I suspect that the advantage was on the side of the manufacturer, for me as an installer the early ones were nothing but trouble, in theory the gates will have some autonomy on battery power when the mains fails, a DC motor controller is able to monitor the current drawn and can reverse the gates when they encounter an obstacle, for me it just resulted in call outs as the set points seemed to vary with the weather, in any case a conforming gate system will have at least one pair of photocells to provide safety. Cables need to be much larger with the DC systems and volt drop is a real problem, water ingress or more correctly lack of or blocked drainage is the achilles heel of underground gate drives, a 24vdc system is not going to trip the tableau when there is an earth leakage.

Even the best electromechanical underground drives will take on water if permanantly submerged, hydraulic actuators though are in their element so that is a key consideration.

This is where we got the main problem - there is no wiring to the existing rams. There are two pumps in the control box behind the wall and 2 copper pipes going to each gate ram. However, any new system will need wiring. I would rather not be lifting the cobbles here, and passing a cable through / under the wall will be hellish - its about 1.5m thick.The copper pipes are in standard grey plastic gaines...they are larger than car brake pipes - perhaps small-bore central heating pipe. Plan A is to attach a string to one end and pull the pipe back out of the gaine. it MIGHT be flexible enough to pull out and I have a decent hand winch to persuade it if needed. I can then pull the cables back through the gaine. I am not sure of the chances of success here. I would have two chances per side to get it right. Plan B depends on what type of wiring goes to the motors. I believe I could slip a normal 1.5mm (perhaps 2.5mm?) single strand copper wire down inside each pipe, giving me two wires to each leaf, plus the copper itself could be used as an earth conductor if needed. However, I dont know what spec wiring these gate motors require. Not exactly conforming to electrical normes, but it might work?
I can make up a bush to eliminate the free play in the top hinge and the centre stop on the ground is a sturdy thing that can be left in place. I dont know if an electric latch would be needed on these gates? The website suggests only needed for much longer leaves. There is multi-core cable to the existing photosensors which I can probably re-use for the new ones.
Anything else I need to think about?

If the gaine is the corrugated type then the pipes probably werent pulled into it and I doubt that you will tug them out, if you use another hydraulic operator then re-use them, they are standard 8mm kunifer with compression fittings.

Gate operator cables are usually 4 core, earth, common and two lives (forward and reverse) the 24v ones will just be 2 core but much larger conductor sizes, they wont come with cables attached (expense) or if they do just a few inches, you will have to terminate them in the ground box which will come back to bite you one day, the 240vac ones will have 1.5 meters of cable attached which will usually be long enough to terminate in the control box or a junction box at the rear of the other gatepost, the inside connections and the motor can sometimes be in an oil bath which helps protect against water ingress.

Any of the self locking operators will be adequate for these gates, if someone really tries to force them they will do themselves an injury if its a hydraulic system but could break the operator of its E/M the units look and feel really strong but the weak point is a bronze crown or worm wheel inside that can break a tooth (the pinion is steel) someone like you dave can repair it by reversing it 180°.

What else to think about? loads of things and most I have probably forgotten! Manual release? - Can it be reached from outside? I am thinking particularly if you retain the existing position of the hydraulic pumps. If you have another entrance gate or pedestrian gate its not such a problem, the E/M units have key operated manual releases at the spindle but this lifts the gate off the floor and you need to be Hercules to release them when under tension.

Is the axis of the gates at 90° to the gateposts? When a driveway meets a road at anything other than 90° the pillars are often aligned with the outside wall meaning the gates are assymetric, one opens more than the other, this can be a real headache with E/M units with the operating mechanism going over centre and reversing the direction of the gates.

Thats all for now, a work break beckons, I will PM you with my contact details

[/quote]

[Chancer]

[quote user="dave21478"]Next is the main entrance. Its somewhat grander....


The leaves are 1.8m long and 2.3m high. I dont know what kind of wood it is, but they are 10cm thick. I would guess very heavy indeed.
There are 2 huge hinges per leaf...
[img]http://s12.postimage.org/k6nfw7c5p/P1000633.jpg[/img]
It opens inwards. Whoever put this up did a decent job, the leaves are very well hung and move very freely, although due to their weight, have huge momentum. There is no sign of any movement over the years, but this gate doesnt seem to have had much use. The wood has swollen slightly so they catch a bit in the middle and at the top, but its nothing an electric planer wont fix. The outside of the gates is very sheltered so no chance of wind buffeting. Wind can blow down the drive and onto the backs of the gates, but the way the frame is made and a central stop on the ground mean they will not budge outwards at all.
This would be a fresh install so the cobbles will have to come up to run cables etc. I plan to weld two angle irons to forum a U channel which I will bolt to the bottom edge of the gates to fix the motors to. The owner wants it all to be as discreet as possible.
The first problem I see is that the centre-line of the hinges is VERY close to the wall - about 30mm max. To fit an underground motor will require the hole to undercut the wall somewhat to allow the motor shaft to be aligned with the hinges. A bit of a faff, but not impossible I would say.
However, I was browsing a bricoshed the other day and spotted their gate demo units. One of which was mounted off-centre from the axis of the hinges. There was a slotted section fixed to the gate and the end of the motors arm had a nylon bush that ran in this slot. Is this feasible on gates this size?

Yes, thats pretty much what I used to do, you are half way there with your fabrication, on substantial wooden gates I would rebate in a piece of heavy channem section on the underneath, the type they hang pipes etc from, the rolled lips meant that I could turn up a peg with a groove in it which would slide in the channel a bit like a T nut and which was welded to the operator, the whole thing was very strong and completely hidden, this technique will only work with the E/M operators as the hydraulic actuators have to have their axis aligned with the gate hinge and become the bottom hinge. I think you will need 50mm hinge offset from the pillar but the hydraulic ones may be less.

This kit seems up to the job....
http://www.gatemotors.co.uk/page-197-2-4
A useful feature is that it can be set to accelerate and decelerate gently at the end of each movement.

I remember the "Nice" kit now, they pronounced it "Niccé" it wasnt that great, on a par with Camé and not popular with the installers as the company sold to the DIY market, have a look at the leaf width/mass graph, I'm not sure that its up to your job, if the gates really are heavy I would go for hydraulic operators, with that sort of momentum if the wind starts rocking them back and forth or even a weakling burglar it will soon break the drive gear, it also seems very expensive to me but maybe its just my memory, I will check the Faac price list when I return to the UK soon, I'm sure I was paying less than £500 for a double underground E/M kit back in 2004.

Anything else I should be thinking about?

Generally speaking - how many accessories can be added to these things? The metal gates at least would ideally have a code keypad both inside and outside to allow authorised people to pass without a fob, and possibly a ground loop sensor on the inside further up the driveway to let guest vehicles exit without needing a fob or the code. The driveway is currently gravel (well, mud just now, but it is supposed to be gravel!) but will eventually be cobbled, so this needs to be done and working reliably before the cobbles are done.

Ground loop is a good idea for free exit, an disable switch also so that people cant hop over the wall and steal a car in the dead of the night, well they still can but you dont want to let them out easily! They are actually very easy to do but for some reason put most installers off, probably because they are easy to get wrong, there are a couple of rules of thumb and techniques which come with experience and make the job very easy and the operation 100% reliable.

On a similar note, what sort of thing should I be looking for in a videophone type of system? Both gates are a fair way from the main building, so a camera and buzzer at the gate connected to a screen inside the house where the owner can talk to arriving people and open the gates remotely would be ideal. Is this sort of thing available in wireless form? Running cables from gate to house would be a herculean task that I really dont fancy doing.

Wireless was only just coming in when I ceased my business and was expensive and unreliable, there was a great gap in the market as there were loads of gates already automated or at least with power but not comms cable, a couple of manufacturers were looking at CPL systems, dont know the term in English but its courant porteur ligne a bit like the Dlan networks that use the mains wiring, the best video intercoms were the Japanese Aiphone, hugely expensive but with nice features like pantilt camera operation, storing the images of callers etc, I have seen all this and more for under €100 in thye brico sheds but I doubt that it would perform for long, the best audio systems are Italian like the best gate automation, Videx being my preffered, very flexible, good value, robust and reliable.

Thanks,

[/quote]

[Chancer]

[quote user="dave21478"]Next is the main entrance. Its somewhat grander....


The leaves are 1.8m long and 2.3m high. I dont know what kind of wood it is, but they are 10cm thick. I would guess very heavy indeed.
There are 2 huge hinges per leaf...
[img]http://s12.postimage.org/k6nfw7c5p/P1000633.jpg[/img]
It opens inwards. Whoever put this up did a decent job, the leaves are very well hung and move very freely, although due to their weight, have huge momentum. There is no sign of any movement over the years, but this gate doesnt seem to have had much use. The wood has swollen slightly so they catch a bit in the middle and at the top, but its nothing an electric planer wont fix. The outside of the gates is very sheltered so no chance of wind buffeting. Wind can blow down the drive and onto the backs of the gates, but the way the frame is made and a central stop on the ground mean they will not budge outwards at all.
This would be a fresh install so the cobbles will have to come up to run cables etc. I plan to weld two angle irons to forum a U channel which I will bolt to the bottom edge of the gates to fix the motors to. The owner wants it all to be as discreet as possible.
The first problem I see is that the centre-line of the hinges is VERY close to the wall - about 30mm max. To fit an underground motor will require the hole to undercut the wall somewhat to allow the motor shaft to be aligned with the hinges. A bit of a faff, but not impossible I would say.
However, I was browsing a bricoshed the other day and spotted their gate demo units. One of which was mounted off-centre from the axis of the hinges. There was a slotted section fixed to the gate and the end of the motors arm had a nylon bush that ran in this slot. Is this feasible on gates this size?

Yes, thats pretty much what I used to do, you are half way there with your fabrication, on substantial wooden gates I would rebate in a piece of heavy channem section on the underneath, the type they hang pipes etc from, the rolled lips meant that I could turn up a peg with a groove in it which would slide in the channel a bit like a T nut and which was welded to the operator, the whole thing was very strong and completely hidden, this technique will only work with the E/M operators as the hydraulic actuators have to have their axis aligned with the gate hinge and become the bottom hinge. I think you will need 50mm hinge offset from the pillar but the hydraulic ones may be less.

This kit seems up to the job....
http://www.gatemotors.co.uk/page-197-2-4
A useful feature is that it can be set to accelerate and decelerate gently at the end of each movement.

I remember the "Nice" kit now, they pronounced it "Niccé" it wasnt that great, on a par with Camé and not popular with the installers as the company sold to the DIY market, have a look at the leaf width/mass graph, I'm not sure that its up to your job, if the gates really are heavy I would go for hydraulic operators, with that sort of momentum if the wind starts rocking them back and forth or even a weakling burglar it will soon break the drive gear, it also seems very expensive to me but maybe its just my memory, I will check the Faac price list when I return to the UK soon, I'm sure I was paying less than £500 for a double underground E/M kit back in 2004.

Anything else I should be thinking about?

Generally speaking - how many accessories can be added to these things? The metal gates at least would ideally have a code keypad both inside and outside to allow authorised people to pass without a fob, and possibly a ground loop sensor on the inside further up the driveway to let guest vehicles exit without needing a fob or the code. The driveway is currently gravel (well, mud just now, but it is supposed to be gravel!) but will eventually be cobbled, so this needs to be done and working reliably before the cobbles are done.

Ground loop is a good idea for free exit, an disable switch also so that people cant hop over the wall and steal a car in the dead of the night, well they still can but you dont want to let them out easily! They are actually very easy to do but for some reason put most installers off, probably because they are easy to get wrong, there are a couple of rules of thumb and techniques which come with experience and make the job very easy and the operation 100% reliable.

On a similar note, what sort of thing should I be looking for in a videophone type of system? Both gates are a fair way from the main building, so a camera and buzzer at the gate connected to a screen inside the house where the owner can talk to arriving people and open the gates remotely would be ideal. Is this sort of thing available in wireless form? Running cables from gate to house would be a herculean task that I really dont fancy doing.

Wireless was only just coming in when I ceased my business and was expensive and unreliable, there was a great gap in the market as there were loads of gates already automated or at least with power but not comms cable, a couple of manufacturers were looking at CPL systems, dont know the term in English but its courant porteur ligne a bit like the Dlan networks that use the mains wiring, the best video intercoms were the Japanese Aiphone, hugely expensive but with nice features like pantilt camera operation, storing the images of callers etc, I have seen all this and more for under €100 in thye brico sheds but I doubt that it would perform for long, the best audio systems are Italian like the best gate automation, Videx being my preffered, very flexible, good value, robust and reliable.

Thanks,

[/quote]

[Théière]

Not as experienced as Chancer but I would agree, hydraulic work in the worst of possible conditions as the pump parts can be located out of the floor and in nice clean cabinets. it's one of the reasons hydraulic motors are used on swimming pool covers although electric is available it is seldom as reliable when in a flooded pool pit.  24V does allow for solar panel to battery units in remote places but there is always a compromise and I would only use that on out of the ground actuators.

[Chancer]

Good point I had forgotten about the solar power, the ones I saw back then were by necessity very weedy motors that took a few minutes to even open a 5 bar gate, they were very coy about how many times a day it could be used and hours of sunshine needed.

I guess the solar panels will have improved.

I did very few hydraulic systems as I could be more competitive with the new cheaper E/M ones, my competitors being once bitten twice shy stuck with what they knew and trusted giving me a competitive advantage, shame as I really enjoyed the few hydraulic systems that I did do, I know that I was mighty impressed to come across Faac hydraulic systems that were 20+ years old and that had never had any maintenance.

Of all the businesses that I had it was by far my favorite, usually nice and interesting surroundings, I could watch the world go by, people were always interested and wanted to chat so it was free marketting and I never ever failed to get a huge buzz when the gates opened for the first time under their own steam, it was as if each time I was as equally pleased and surprised as the first installation when I finally got them to work.

[dave21478]

Battery or solar backup isn't really needed - there is the pedestrian gate to the side of the main wooden gate, so access is still possible in the event of power going off.

Oh dear, perhaps I should be persevering with the existing hydraulic system then? You say FAAC are the best of the best, so that really doesn't inspire my confidence in the kind of things I linked to earlier.

I think part of my problem with the FAAC system is the imbeciles at the FAAC dealer in town - they are so painfully slow and inefficient at doing anything that I just can't stomach going there any more or giving them any more money (ok its not MY money, but you know what I mean!)

The key fobs all fell to bits within a few months. I got the first replacement from the dealer at huge cost and it took 3 weeks! I then found that the cheery chappy that fixes shoes and cuts keys in the booth outside my local supermarket can do copies for a third of the price on the spot, so I replaced the rest there.

One of the actuators had a bad leak so I stripped it down. 16 years of mud and dirt had formed an effective grinding paste that had cut a groove in the main shaft where the upper oil seal sits. According to the dealer, parts are not available (But i could buy a whole new system $$$$$$!) I welded up the groove and all the pitting, then lacking a lathe I got busy with a file and micrometer to make it round again. The problem is that is has lost whatever surface hardening treatment it would have had so probably wont last. - Its another subject, but lately I have been eyeing up SKF speedy sleeves for another problem I have but I think they could work here too if needed.

Also, one of the main seals on one of the pistons had flipped inside out due to the gate constantly just being pushed open by people passing through it, which has somewhat worn the inside of the cylinder. I have re-sat the seal, but don't know if it leaks or is now more likely to flip round again. I couldn't find new seals like those anywhere.

Then the circuit board failed. He called me one day to have a look - no life from the gate. It had tripped the breaker so I reset that and still nothing. Inside the control box a fuse on the board had popped so I replaced that. It powered up but as soon as I pressed to open the gate it popped again. I did some faffing, disconnecting various bits and bobs one at a time to find the fault by elimination but it eventually gave a big flash from the on board transfo and all the magic electrical smoke escaped. I got a replacement board from the dealers, which was a right faff and took 4 trips (40 minutes each way!) to buy something they turned out to have in stock[:@]. Fitted and programmed it worked fine for another month before one leaf started only moving in one direction.  Its pump only works in one direction and will not reverse. Its in bits in my garage but I havent looked too closely at it as we had decided to see about replacing the whole lot by then.

I am loathe to spend out on a pump, which is likely to be several hundred euros from those fuds in town and perhaps still not have a reliable gate. However the last thing I want is some clanky electric version to turn out to be just as bad, or even worse. My neighbour has an electric verin type on his driveway gates....it looks, feels and sounds like cheap crap (It wasnt cheap though) and every other weekend he is fiddling with it....I could probably make something better from my nephews Lego.

I haven't inquired about a new pump yet, plus I still have the problem that the gates can just be pushed open, so would need to change the actuators for alternative kinds that lock closed? According to the dealer, the hydraulic actuators I have are no longer available, and should be replaced with the modern all-in-one with the pump and ram all down under the gate....basically I would have to buy the entire new system. This brings me straight back to the problem of running the power cables down to each gate.

[Chancer]

I think that he is talking b******s Dave, as I said I still have an account with Faac UK so will bring back the catalogue and my price list next week from the UK.

I had the same experience from the Faac dealer in Amiens, an ex customer who is now a good friend wanted me to replace his control board, to save time I decided to buy it over here, I wasnt concerned about getting my trade price it just seemed simpler, well what a shower they were, total incompetents, totally uncustomer friendly and frankly very hostile but thats a frequent occurence, I know in the UK dealers or installers that dont meet their standards are told to buy elsewhere.

AFAIK all the parts for older FAAC hydraulic units are available, the new control boards, enfin new to me 8 years ago were superb and I used them to replace all other makes, how much did those goons rush you for one then?

I have tons of Faac radio gear in my garage in the UK, I didnt fit it, good as it was (and it is very good) as the kits I bought came with one transmitters and the extra ones cost too much, good for them but i felt bad passing on the costs to my customers, instead I used cheap car alarm keyfob transmitters which I recoded myself with a soldering iron and the stand alone reciever units, that way I could sell an £8.50 transmitter to the customer for £25 which was half of what a Faac one would have cost them, also they were much smaller and sexier, mind you the recievers gave me no end of grief.

Anyway I have tons of transmitters and some recievers, I tried selling or even giving them to other Faac installers in the UK but they are now all on a new frequency with rolling codes (allegedly).

I dont mind ordering this stuff for you in the UK, it would be as well to keep the account active or they may close it, I have just re_established trading terms with a couple of my other access control and locking suppliers for stuff that I am going to be using here, it was a lot of hassle but at least unlike here in France they wanted to deal with me, welcomed me with open arms in fact but nonetheless the admin checks had to be done.

You have my details by PM

[Chancer]

By the way, Faac or any other gate equipment is only as good as the halfwit that installs it, a hell of a lot of my customers came to me via Faac after they had complained about their original or subsequent installers and had been had over, I have seen far worse than what you describe.

I am uncertain but to get the self locking function I think its the pump unit that must be changed, all too long ago I'm afraid.

It certainly sounds like your rams would benefit from a service kit.

It may cost more for the individual parts to repair/upgrade your system than a Faac E/M system as they sell the gate kits for less than the cost of the individual component, the price of one of their underground E/M kits will be a lot less than those in the links that you showed me.

Maybe replace the stuff on the steel gates with an E/M system and use whatever can be salvaged/refurbed from the old stuff on the heavy wooden gates?

Editted. I only found out about Speedi-sleeves very recently, what a brilliant idea [I]

[Chancer]

Hi Dave.

I am back in YUK at the moment and just glanced at the latest Faac price list, the stuff looks a lot more expensive than I remember but its probably because they have upped the public prices and given the dealers and installers a greater discount.

Your existing gate operators are the Faac 750 system I am fairly certain, as I thought they are a current model and all spares are still available, the self locking mechanism is contained in the pump unit as I thought.

Some list prices for you and the part numbers, with these you might be able to beat the French Faac dealer about the head, good luck, I have only ever once been able to renegotiate with someone, the others cant face the loss of face (its only in their mind) and become aggressive.

FAAC 750 CBAC self locking pump unit £291

Faac 750 100° opening jack unit £281

Faac 455D control board £177

The control board is the good one with really intelligent programming.

Not sure what the trade discount is these days, all the stuff is much cheaper when you buy a gate kit, operators, ground boxes, control board, accessories, radio gear etc, the public prices above are what the customer would pay when a part is replaced, the French faac dealer should not be asking any more than the prix publique apart from perhaps a slight difference due to exchange rates.

Let me know if you want me to bring the catalogue back to France on sunday.