Fosse..

[woolybanana]

Cost of fosse depends on how much you can do yourself. Getting a digger, digging the holes and trenches yourself could save a shed load of money as could popping the pipework and fosse in the ground.

Have you asked people round about what their fosse cost?

Just make sure that you follow the correct plan and let SPANC inspect the works when they are supposed to.

[Leven]

This is a system that is cheap, its 4000 euros

http://www.materiaux-naturels.fr/fiche-576/micro-station-epuration-autonome-individuelle-eyvi-.html

France Bonhomme have a large selection from about 6000 euros

[idun]

Right, my reaction is that you don't even know what there is there.

What if the land is polluted........... I have experience of polluted land and costs, but that was in the mid 1980's and fortunately it was not us who paid.

Seems that you have many unknowns here.

As has been suggested, make sure that these vendors get the SPANC people in and the proper report, in fact ALL the reports that are required.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10798

And this is the part about SPANC on the french public service web site:

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F31685

(Personally I would check for local bylaws too at the Mairie too)

French legislation states:

That the seller has to pay to get the diagnostic done, but YOU could accept to take the house in it's current state......... with the law stating that you have to get this work done within  1 year of signing the Acte de Vente.

Le SPANC contrôle l'installation et délivre un diagnostic en précisant si elle présente ou non :

• des dysfonctionnements
• et/ou des risques pour la santé ou l'environnement.

En cas de problèmes constatés, des travaux de mise en conformité de l'installation sont nécessaires.

Ces

travaux de mise en conformité de l'installation sont à la charge du

vendeur. Ce dernier peut néanmoins décider de ne pas les faire. Dans ce

cas, il en informe le futur acquéreur qui décidera ou non d'acquérir le

bien en l'état. Les travaux peuvent alors faire partie de la négociation

financière. Dans tous les cas, ils devront être réalisés au plus tard 1

an après la signature de l'acte de vente.

[andyh4]

Leven

that price is just the plastic fosse.

To that you need to add:

survey of the ground

delivery - the site is very coy about the actual delivery charges.

digging a hole to put the fosse in (and let's hope the survey does not turn up bedrock where the fosse and outfield are going)

digging pipe runs to the fosse and to the outlet field

pipework to the fosse and into the outlet area

installing pipes, grease trap and fosse

back filling holes - including perhaps adding sand/gravel to the outfield.

Your 4k€ (fosse only) could very easily double and more.

[Chancer]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"] You know, in France a common way of doing this (if it is a complete renovation) is to just multiply the Sq metres of the house by 1k - 1.5 k euros. 100sq metres = 100k- 150k Euros renovation. That is how architects do it. Now work out the market price for said house renovated 'tastefully' in that area. Then deduct the two. That is your offer....Ish.[/quote]

 

Well that has burst my bubble, there was me thinking that I had got a fantastic deal but in reality the seller should have paid me €100k to take it off their hands [blink]

 

How is it that I have not only renovated but created 6 fully furnished (everything last item to live) and decorated apartments on a quarter of the figure you quote just for renovation and that includes all the outside works, car park, boundary walls etc and major structural changes.

 

In fact your logic does work out bang on the money for most of the properties around here, they would have the exact same selling price but with a minus figure in front of it, and then there is the problem of finding a tastefully renovated maison in the first place to establish the baseling figure [:P]

[alittlebitfrench]

An average French family (buying a 4 bed / 3 bed) have not got time to renovate. There only option is to employ artisans and do a bit of painting themselves.

My figures (1k-1.5k euros per metre squared) stand in that respect. Maybe more, maybe less depending on your definition of renovation.

If you can do most of the work yourself then you are on a winner, but remember your time has a cost to.

Just because you are doing the work yourself does not mean you should offer a different price. You make an offer based on employing artisans to do the work.

You see my point ?

[Chancer]

No!

 

Because I would not waste my time offering someone a deal where (using my property for instance) they would have to pay me €250000 to take it off their hands just because according to your calculations artisans would charge me €405000 to renovate it to "a decent standard" or whatever phrase you used whereas its value as a renovated but unfurnished residential or commercial unit would at that time have been €150000.

 

I offered the full asking price of €40K which was in my mind correct, it was worth that to me, and those final words are what a sensible offer should be, if its not going to be sensible and using your theory it never will be, dont insult someone and make yourself look (insert your own word) making an offer, just say it isnt for me.

 

You dont buy a 10 year old car with 200k on the clock and expect the price to be X minus what it would cost you to pay a professional restorer to make a new vehicle of it, you buy a new vehicle if that is what you want. That said some idiots in the classic car world are starting to use your logic but they just show themselves to be the wanabee investor that they are rather than a knowledgeable enthusiast.

 

There will be some middle ground between your position and mine, negotiation will always happen, the laws of supply and demand and the interaction between the needs and desires of buyer and seller will dictate the selling price, your valuation method will just result in the door slammed in your face, I pretty much guarantee that if the OP uses your formula on the m2 of this building versus the "decent standard restored" price it would be a negative offer.

 

In my youth the only reason I had a car let alone a decent one was because I was willing to buy cheap vehicles that needed work, they made me a small profit but not to cover the time they took me but it was a pleasure and other people would lose on their vehicles, I gradually moved on to better and better, the only reason that I have the property interests I have now is that I did exactly the same thing albeit many years too late.

[woolybanana]

Property interests and a Bentley Continental?

[mint]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Cost of fosse depends on how much you can do yourself. Getting a digger, digging the holes and trenches yourself could save a shed load of money as could popping the pipework and fosse in the ground.

Have you asked people round about what their fosse cost?

Just make sure that you follow the correct plan and let SPANC inspect the works when they are supposed to.[/quote]

Sure you could save mega bucks...............apply for permission from SPANC, hire a digger, use it to do all the digging works, make sure you are laying pipes to the right fall, make sure your filter bed has the necessary depth and area and the correct geotextile materials, communicate with SPANC for the initial inspection and when the excavation is done, arrange for the dug up material to be disposed of (unless you have sufficient space to spread it all out on your own land) and don't forget to allow for inspection chambers and rodding holes..............no, I don't think it's the best advice for someone who has already said he knows nothing about fosses[:D]

Get a recognised and approved installer.  They will do all the necessary paperwork and construct what is recommended so that there is no danger that the fosse will not be to standard and will be signed off and that you have in your hand that all important certificate.  Guard said certificat with your life because you are going to need it again, no question. 

The all-important phrase is "aux normes" and those normes do get changed from time to time as environmental protection becomes increasingly rigorous.  I think the last upgrade was 2013 though my information may be outdated even now. 

Chris, I have sent you a PM. 

[andyh4]

Chancer wrote:

How is it that I have not only renovated but created 6 fully furnished (everything last item to live) and decorated apartments on a quarter of the figure you quote just for renovation and that includes all the outside works, car park, boundary walls etc and major structural changes.

Probably because you have done most of it yourself. Now factor in your time spent at artisans' rates.

It grieves me to say it but ALBF's ball park number is probably quite close unless you are going to do all of the work yourself. It was the number we were given in 2002 and although I did the finishing jobs myself, it has turned out to be pretty close. Now given that is 15 years ago, I am surprised that the numbers have not inflated to perhaps 1300 - 1900€/square metre.

Now whether you use these numbers to work back to the cost you should really pay at purchase is another question. It really depends how deeply you are embedded in the Anglo-Saxon ethic of when it is finished it must be worth more than I have laid out, or whether you are building a property that meets your immediate and future needs. I am in the latter group. I now have a property that meets immediate needs and (as far as you can see in the future) needs for the future.

I will openly admit that, were I to sell it today, I would be lucky to recoup all of my costs. But then I have no intention of selling - so that is an immaterial point. My pleasure in having what I feel I need and want outweighs any perceived market value.

It is perhaps like owning a piece of art. Prices may escalate or dive depending on the "market" desires, but if the piece gives you personal pleasure, the market price is immaterial.

[idun]

 Chancer, and that is the biiiigggggg difference, those who can and do, the best and cheapest especially when there is time to shop around.............

.........and those who can't and the catastrophies when they try......... or can but have no time........ or simply lack of funds and little gets done.

Our home in France had next to nothing done by artisans, when we arrived in France, even then they were charging 2000ff a day, that was around £200 a day and even at that, many went out of business.

We had the new chimney cassette put in by them and that had cost a fortune.  Lousy workman ship and had to be redone within three years....... and they had gone bust!

Renovating, I would love to say that it was hard to get the money back, but we have a family member and a good friend who have bought homes to live in them, done them up with high quality finishes and made a lot of money every single time. Both have done this at least 5 times now, probably more. It is beyond me when I see what they buy and then when they have finished what people will pay...... I do not get it.

However, most people I know will never break even on their improvements so may as well just enjoy them. I doubt we will...... to be honest, there again, I am a very basic person and do not instinctively go for a 'look' but rather what I am comfy with......

I suspect that too many french properties are over priced. And I know that most british ones are!!!!!!![:(]

[Jonzjob]

Chris, the first 2 items in this may help you?

It's an article about selling, but I think these are usseful to the buyer too?

[idun]

JJ your link isn't working..... are you able to make it work?[:)]

[Jonzjob]

Idun, as they say 'Owz-zat'. Give it a try above now. I must have had a senior memont there [8-)]