Would you buy a house in France that has been rewired by foreign owner who is not a qualified electrician ?

[alittlebitfrench]

The answer of course is no. Of course not. Do people do that in the UK ? No. I don't want my kids walking around a French house that has been rewired by someone who used to sell cars for a living or work in a call centre in Basingstoke. Especially when they get half their advice from a Forum. Emmm...do I need this type of fuse or that type of thingy ?

So why do so many expats move to France and rewire their own house when they are not trained to do so ?

This should be made illegal. It is not right.

Am I the only one to find this very very scary ?

[minnie]

Actually I thought it was illegal to rewire in France unless you are a qualified electrician. Perhaps I'm wrong. I do agree with you that both Gas and Electrics need special expertise.

[alittlebitfrench]

I think it is legal if there is already an electricity supply turned on. If not then the work has to be signed off by some administrative body or other before it can be connected.

You know, a French person can walk into a Brico shop and get advice in their own language and whilist that is not great it is better than nothing., But an expat (even with competent French) will lose a lot in translation. With little French they have to rely on books and forums for advice.

Controversial as it may sound, I would not go anywhere near a Brit house unless they produce invoices for electricity work that has been carried out. Furthermore, I would not stay in a gîte in fear that it may burn down because it has been rewired by the owner.

I do feel (having read a scary thread today on another forum...and countless others in the past) that this should be made illegal.

This is just wrong. It is dangerous.

Lets start a petition.

[Chancer]

Then you are a muppet! - in the nicest possible way!

 

Anyone be they French, English, Turk, Morroccan can do their own electricity installation and then go on to have it connected to the grid if they have a Consuel inspection, I will soon have my 7th, the Consuel testing régime is one of the very good things about France and something the UK could learn from.

 

Furthermore buying from a non pro installer like myself you have far greater protection because all of my installs are checked by Consuel whereas an Electrician just buys the attestations and fills them out without any 3rd party checking (after the first one or two are checked by Consuel) just as in the UK.

 

Furtherfurthermore in case you are worried about a Brit (why no other nationalities) having done work on an existing installation (very probable) all properties that are sold now have to have a diagnostique electrique and it seems that now the current will not be reconnected before ERDF have seen it to decide if any défauts are dangerous or just non compliance with the latest regs.

 

Myself as a non (French) qualified electrician has even installed the 400 amp outside coffet de coupure and isolation and the inside colonne collectif something you wont find any French electrician will have done unless he is long retired, begrudgingly it was checked and accepted by ERDF albeit after an 18 month fight and having to bring out the big guns like the deputé and La HALDE.

[alittlebitfrench]

Muppet is my middle name LOL.

I am guessing a Consuel cannot tell what is going on where wires are buried behind walls !!!! Especially where those horrible rails that hold up placo have been used.

And Chancer, have you ever had an Electricity diagnostic in France ?

I have. LOl

[lindal1000]

I would concur with Chancer here. OH has just rewired the house we are doing up for rental. ERDF inspected the original connection, told us it was unsafe, we paid to have it moved. Before we can rent it electrics have to be checked.

It has to conform to French norms to get certificate. I wouldn't want to buy any house, no matter who wired it, without getting the electrics checked. Not one we've see when looking for buy to lets has passed and none of them were wired by Brits!

[Chancer]

On the other hand there are loads of properties in this region owned by Brits who cannot sell them because they used one English "general builder", a plumber allegedly but he sure werent a sparks, he used 15th amendment UK fuse boards and twin & earth cabling, he proudly boasted to me that he had converted a pair of French electricians to doing the same.

 

When I did my first install I would go and look at a gite being done by this pair who were not even electricians but required unskilled factory workers and I was appalled by what I saw but all of it was later hidden by the placo (interdit) like one gaine branching into two and taped together, I took it apart and found that the wires were twisted together and taped, it should have been 2 seperate gaines going back to seperate breakers in the tableau.

 

That is one gîte that I would not want to stay in.

 

I have also seen some appalling dangerous bodges done by other French sparkies.

 

My pal is building some gites as we speak, he has CAD plans for the buildings and a company takes all the info from them and then makes him up a complete electrical systsem with all the gaines junction boxes and components prewired to the correct length with idiot proof connection labels, he calls it a pieuvre (octopus, probably wrong word and spelling) the finished job is superb and the Consuel guy when he visits me says that mine and my friends installations are among the best that he ever sees yet my friend has no real electrical knowledge or training, when the Consue guy tells me what he catches out some of the pros doing (they can do random checks on any install signed off by the pro) that really makes me shudder.

 

But regardless of who the bodger is, pro or particulier, Brit, French or Turque behind all that you have the security of knowing that unless its a really old tableau you will have différentiel protection far far better than all but the very latest 17th Edition UK installs. 

[Chancer]

And another point, most of the diagnostiqueurs whilst allegedly qualified are as competent and knwoledgeable about electricity as the average French celeb estate agent.

 

I would advise anyone to not put too much credence in the diagnostique but to pay to have a voluntary Consuel inspection for their peace of mine, best €110 they will ever spend.

[alittlebitfrench]

OK, any DIY installation (French, British, or whoever) should be made illegal.

End off.

In the meantime, Brit idiots trying to rewire their houses and using a forum for guidance is only going to end in tears. You have to admit (and I appreciate you are competent Chancer) some 'muppets' are not.

[alittlebitfrench]

....and going back to your point about diagnostics, you are right. Our bloke just checked if there was an earth connection in all the sockets. That was the diagnostic. Did not look at the tableau. Scary.

[woolybanana]

Mine certainly checked everything on my last place and from the report on this house it was very thoroughly done (mark you it was pretty new).

By the way, the worst wiring I have ever come across has been by FRENCH amateurs though whether they followed a book or not I cannot say. To the extent that the upstairs lighting wiring actually used bell wire!

[powerdesal]

ALBF, I guess you wouldn't want to buy my house, because I did my own re-wire. The fact that I am a retired professional electrical engineer means nothing because I have no French qualifications.

(nb. It was all done to French normes using French equipment.)

[alittlebitfrench]

I can live with an electrical engineer to be fair.

A Kick Fit Fitter, hairdresser or a cashier from Poundland ........ummm.....No.

Most of the above (if they don't electrocute themselves) end up working as Estate Agents for Leggetts as well. Not sure what is worse LOL.

Top tip. If you ever visit an expat property in the Dordogne, wear welly boots. Even in the summer.

[idun]

This is really amusing me.

The very idea that all DIY is inferior to 'professionals'...... well, I know some pretty ropey plumbers and electricians in France and the UK.  AND I know good ones in both too....... as well as knowing DIY'ers that do excellent jobs. In France the consuel should do their stuff properly and that should be OK.

What I would say is, that unlike a couple of english people we know in France, do not get three pin sockets fitted along with the mains being whatever they are that is the difference between both countries. Still one lot did sell their house, but I never heard how it went when they got their electrics checked pre sale......... and I do not see them any more.

[Gardengirl]

I wouldn't buy any property without a full inspection of the electrics, no matter what the nationality of the previous owner/builder. It's not just 'Brits' (I hate that term! And wouldn't dream of calling French people 'frogs') who bodge things.

We bought our place here in the Gard off plan 9 years ago, built by a French company. Some of the work was appallingly done, water and electrics. Some of the wiring wasn't done at all correctly, most tv and phone points in the building were messed up; my husband spent ages testing and putting some things right - in the distant past he was an electrical engineer. He rewired two of our houses before the new laws in England came in requiring such work to be inspected - I imagined this was law throughout the EU, but maybe not.

One of the toilets didn't flush properly, I was asked if we really needed two....... And when we complained about big puddles on the balcony we were told that it had rained in the night......... Of course, we wouldn't sign the completion form or pay the final instalment until it was all rectified to our standards, which included re-testing of the wiring and redoing it correctly, taking down a wall to get the toilet pipes etc right and taking up the balcony and re-laying it.

On Friday of this week members of the conseil syndical, including me, will spend another day with expert experts(!) after having had many 'experts' sent by our insurers, to try to find out why the building is again having leaks whenever there is heavy rain.

This has now been going on for 2 years due to bad design and poor workmanship; one part of the building has a big flat roof, onto which pours rain from 2 large roofs, with no means of taking the water away - no downpipes or drains - zilch. And when it rains down here, it really buckets down!

We have been granted an extension to the building's 10 year insurance cover until the whole problem is sorted out, which we had double-checked by an independent lawyer. I don't trust anybody's word now in France when work is involved. Yet we totally trust our plumber, electrician, decorator etc in England and would happily let them do work on our house when we're in France.

[alittlebitfrench]

The British came up with the term 'Brits'. Blame them.

You have the 'Brit' awards don't you ? What is the problem with the word 'Brit'. You have 'Brit' pop and all that.

As to your new build, we rent a tiny 600 k (5 year old) flat in Paris and it is built like shît. It really is appalling. It it is one of those BBC apartments....but they forgot the insulation. How does that work exactly ??? A BBC apartment without insulation. LOL. Don't get me started about the other problems and the finition.

The flat below us (same problems) sold within a week.

Welcome to France

[Gardengirl]

Albf, I don't know what a BBC flat is.....

Apartments in our building go very quickly too and all are selling to French people; the original owners were a mixed bag of French, British, Belgian, Swiss, one American, some bought as second homes, many as the main home and the owners work in town, but all resales are to French people. There's a waiting list of people who want to rent long-term too, all French people.

Our building is advertised as 'haut de gamme' but those suffering from damp and mould definitely aren't!

[alittlebitfrench]

BBC = Bâtiment Basse Consommation

Basically an eco type flat that does not destroy the planet. Except ours has no insulation and cheap crapy convector electric radiators that produce no heat at the maximum cost to the planet and your wallet.

You gotta love France...

[Gardengirl]

Ah, yes. Your builders need getting under the trade descriptions act!

We had those awful convector heaters here too, but insulation is pretty good, we can't hear a sound from either side or below either - we're on the 2nd = top floor.

We had reversible aircon put in a few years ago, extremely quiet and effective in both summer and winter, and it's very light on energy, electricity bills dropped like a stone - a great bonus on top of being so much more comfortable all year.

[dave21478]

I would trust wiring done by someone on their own house with a little research and care over anything done by professionals any day of the week.

The home owner wants to get it right, the pro just wants it finished so he can pi55 off for lunch or to the next job site.

What next ALBF? no diy plumbing? no DIY car repairs? No DIY pool maintenance?

Try thinking things through before spewing your drivel over the forum.

[alittlebitfrench]

You forgot roofs and gas..Dave !!!!

You are missing the point...if I bought the house with no guarantee (assurance decinale) and something went wrong (or nothing went wrong and I am just horrible person).....I could sue you....for lots of money.

If a death or serious injury resulted from the work then you would be in trouble. Big trouble.

Is it worth the hassle ?

[crack]

By that criteria you wouldn't buy any house that is over 10 years old then?

[alittlebitfrench]

Interesting point Crack.

Ummm.....personally I would either buy a brand newish/new build....OR.....a renovation/maison à réfléchir.

I would not buy a renovated property (or somebody's idea of a renovation) as it will never be to my tastes so it will be still be a renovation but I am paying the price of a renovation. I am thinking bathrooms, kitchens...floors etc.

Whenever we have bought and sold we keep everything neutral so it leaves new owners the space to change it to their own style. Of course we have guarantees/invoices for any major work. LOL

[Chancer]

You are missing the point...if I bought the house with no guarantee (assurance decinale) and something went wrong (or nothing went wrong and I am just horrible person).....I could sue you....for lots of money.

In your dreams.

[alittlebitfrench]

Of course you can Chancer. Some people do it for a living.

Incidentally, there is a British Gîte type B&B type thing being advertised on another forum today. They have created a thread and cunningly linked their website onto it. No probs with that we all do it.

But, even though the website is quite good and the pictures are appealing, if you look not even closely you can see that they have done a DIY electrics job on their business.

In the Kitchen there is a lead for some appliance that been buried into a badly plastered/painted wall plugged into an external socket. The socket is half hanging off the wall. The lead of the washing machine openly crosses the plan de travail and is plugged into a double socket of the wall. Not only that it is in a socket into a socket. That washing machine is definitely not on its own circuit.

I'm not staying there. NOOOOO. It is a disaster. What else have they done ?

I would link it but it would be unfair.

So I rest my case. Leave the electrics to people who are trained to do the job otherwise you are going to kill someone.