Buying a property in Normandy

[paulthompson]

Hello there,

I have found a property in Orne, Normandy.

It was originally listed at 145K in 2015. It was lowered to 95K in February 2016.

It is a one bedroom stone house with 66m2 of space. it has 3200m2 of south facing land, a un developed cellar, 3 other mud floor stone rooms downstairs and an old barn.

It's currently lived in but obviously really needs a makeover.

the agent says he doesn't have the diagnosis documents of the property which I've been lead to believe are legally needed. Please correct me if wrong??

My point is, as the property doesn't have these documents what should i do? Offer really low? Or what??

Please help

Paul

[Pommier]

It sounds very expensive! It needs to have the diagnostics except for the energy efficiency if it hasn't got heating. Have you looked on Leboncoin to find out the price of similar houses in the area?

[Théière]

Sounds ridiculously expensive, sitting on the market for X number of years waiting for a naive purchaser to happen by. Maybe the owners paid too much and are hoping to reduce their losses?

[paulthompson]

The woman who's selling it is quite old. I believe she's owned it for decades. She wants rid of the thing.

Do you think it's too cheeky to offer 50K for it. Just got the report back and the whole thing is coated in 1949 lead paint, it all needs ripping out and replacing anyway but you get the idea. its a pretty property tho.

What do you reckon?

heres a pic

https://s3.postimg.org/ufvg8bpvn/pic1.jpg

[mint]

Paul, I know the Orne department reasonably well, especially the area around Bagnoles de l'Orne.

It's a very cold place in the winter but I do agree that the countryside round about is exceptionally pretty.

I think you should be able to find a house that is "ready to go" for the sort of money you are talking about.

OTOH, if you like the place, then be prepared to spend a fortune on it, or lots of graft if you are doing it up yourself, and do take lots of thermal underwear and wooly jumpers even if you have a heating system in place.  I kid you not.............I have spent time there in winter, beautiful when the sun shines but still bone rattlingly COLD!

[NormanH]

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ventes_immobilieres/1003200216.htm?ca=4_s

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ventes_immobilieres/980275545.htm?ca=4_s

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ventes_immobilieres/842926483.htm?ca=4_s

They aren't mine:)

[suein56]

Paul Thompson said : heres a pic

https://s3.postimg.org/ufvg8bpvn/pic1.jpg

Looking at the photo I can see why you like the look of the place as it most attractive. Have you had a builder round to look at the buildings and give you an approximate idea of how long and how much it would cost to update it/them ?

[paulthompson]

Not yet but they say 1K per sqm2. So Probably 70K.

The place is currently lived in, I reckon I'll gut the current living space, lounge, kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and make that good first. That will probably cost 30K.

Do you think thats a good idea as a starting point? Or leave the bits that are liveable already and start not he repointing? I never know where to start with these things. Is there any logic?

[alittlebitfrench]

I am taking it is the whole she bang that you are buying in that photo ?

According to Meilleurs Agents the prix per metre carre in that area is 880 euros for a building in poor condition. So that is 53,000 euros. Renovated it is about 80,000 euros.

If you used French artisans to Renovate the 66 sq metres I reckon that will cost you 50,000 euros if not more. That does not include the exterior.

Ok, you have a lot more space to renovated and maybe turn it into a 150 sq metre house but given the work involved it would cost more than it would ever be worth.

I think it is a nice house and looks like a fun project. I think 50,000 is that max you would offer without losing 'too much' money. I certainly would not offer more.

In terms of work, you get your living space sorted first but make sure all the plumbing and electricity planned for other areas is installed at the same time. You don't want to do a job twice.

Then picke the front of the house in the winter to keep warm and redo the stonework in the spring.

[Théière]

[quote user="paulthompson"]It was lowered to 95K in February 2016.

It is a one bedroom stone house with 66m2 of space. 

un developed cellar,

3 other mud floor 

obviously really needs a makeover.

Offer really low? [/quote]

Edited so as just to show the facts and the only solution. Don't fall head over heals with, otherwise go to spec savers and ask for new pair without the rose tint.

Norman showed larger more habitable properties so you need to do more searching and less thinking what might be. French artisans leave a fair bit to be desired even when they show up.  If you have a TV production company and are making it into a program fine, if you are a builder fine, if you are a romantic run!

[andyh4]

I have to agree with the 2 sentiments above.

1k (€ or £)/m sq sounds too low unless you intend to do most of the work yourself and/or do it to a low standard. 13 years ago we based on 1500€/m sq and have spent up to that level - and we could easily have gone to a higher standard of finish.

Based on what you have said so far (and filling in the gaps):

1. Probably not on mains drainage - so you will probably legally need a new fosse septique - budget 5-10k€ depending on ground conditions - and assuming there is a garden in which to install it.

2. New windows and doors, double glazed - plus shutters which your insurance company will try and insist on - 5-8k

3, Rewire - 5k

4, Central heating - no mains gas and possibly the electricity supply cannot be upgraded - 6k plus pipework and radiators or underfloor pipework - say 8-12k total

5. Plumbing - 3k

6 replacement of timbers - probably very woodwormed - assuming the roof timbers are still good enough to stay as they are - 2k

7. remove wall covering and replace with insulated plasterboard - 5- 8k

8. New ground floor with damp proof membrane - 3k

9. Repointing? may not be needed but if so 5k

10. New roof - if the roof timbers do need attention - 6-9k

11. Staircase - wood worm and rickety??

12 New ceilings?

Now you can think about finishes - new kitchen, new bathroom, tiling of walls in bathroom and kitchen and probably the ground floor, lighting - depends on how much you want to spend and what quality you are looking for.

Finishing the plasterboard walls to smooth finish and painting throughout.

Work outside??

As I say I think your 1k per m sq is too low.

I am sure there will be some who will tell how they spent less or more on individual items, but I have tried to give you some indicative prices. By all means go ahead, but go ahead with eyes wide open.

[idun]

 If you are not living there permanently you should used registered artisans to do the work, as you can use their bills against possible capitol gains.

I know people who still live in homes with mud floors, so it being lived in has got nothing to do with anything.

Take care as to what you pay and all the other costs involved as it otherwise it could just be like turning the tap on and let money keep on running away from you.

And yes, way over priced, offer €50k and I think that that is generous.