Property Running Costs

[baralbion]

I’ve been calculating whether we can really afford to buy a house in France, initially for several shortish visits a year, but later for more prolonged stays. The purchase price of the property of course has a bearing on it all, but that is something you know in advance. What is less clear is the cost of maintaining a property and visiting it several times a year. I have reckoned that £5000 a year should cover insurance, local taxes, three or four ferry crossings, extra personal insurance and car insurance, payments to a gardener and someone to keep an eye on the property and a bit left over to enjoy France while we’re there. I have not included living expenses as we have to pay these wherever we are – even though there will be some variations between France and the UK.

 

I understand the difficulty of arriving at anything like an accurate figure: all our circumstances are different. But am I anywhere close? Have I missed anything out?

 

[Cassis]

Don't know about the exact amounts - as you say, depends on the property and level of local taxes - but the list of expenditures seems okay, plus petrol, tolls and house maintenance/repairs.  Some communautés de communes have separate tax for refuse collection.

[Alexis]

From comments made here over the years, there are big differences between areas concerning water charges, taxe d'habitation and taxe fonciére.  Electricity, telephone, etc seemed about the same wherever you lived.

I, for example, discovered that I paid more for my water but this was offset by the tuppence half penny I paid for the two taxes.  (Living in a ruin helped also.)

Last years taxe fonciére was 300€ for this house (not the ruin) and that is a large five bedroomed house in a small town.  It also includes rubbish collection which is , from memory, 165€ at the other house.

I would enquire about the two taxes when you are thinking of buying your house.  It could be a VERY nasty shock.  It is no good asking the neighbour either because their bill could be double / half yours for exactly the same house.  Don't ask me why!  Part of the charm of France.

[Cassis]

[quote user="Alexis"]

It is no good asking the neighbour either because their bill could be double / half yours for exactly the same house.  Don't ask me why!  Part of the charm of France.

[/quote]

Maybe because they have no bathrooms/toilets or ten times as many in the same shell!

[Val_2]

Several visits per year - by ferry? Somehow I don't think £5000 will cover that and all the other running costs including your living expenses when in France. Depends too on how far you are going to travel to a property.

[Will]

If you want to spend time in France, then you will do whatever in necessary to afford it. If you want somewhere on the cheap, then I'm told Bulgaria is very nice.

[Dick Smith]

Ferry costs will be high - I estimate we spend £1500 a year for four or five visits (usually five). That is by BF, includes Property Owners' Club discount and always a cabin, always travelling in school holiday periods.

Other costs (leaving aside conversions and repairs, redecorating and buying household goods) would certainly be below £5k in deeply rural Basse Normandie - you don't pay much, but you get what you pay for - rubbish collection is about all...

[baralbion]

Thank you for all these  helpful replies. I should perhaps also have explained that we live in the south of England, that we are looking at Lower Normandy, that there are only two of us, that we use Brittany Ferries day crossings, so no need for a cabin, and travel as far as possible at off-peak times.

[Cassis]

Have you thought of Speedferries if you are doing a lot of trips?  I know it's a bit more in petrol but it's a lot cheaper than Brittany Ferries (29 pounds each way) and if you're crossing regularly they do a 'carnet' of tickets.  Boulogne to Alençon (lowest of Lower Normandy) in about three hours and a half, the time it takes a Brittany ferry to cross the Channel.

[Rob Roy]

Or LD Lines if you want to cross to Le Havre. Still cheaper than Brittany Ferries even if overnight.

[alnmike]

Excluding ferry crossings, the £5k for a small place, not heated in winter, is fine. If you are going to use in winter and have electric heating be prepared for a huge bill. We normally pay €20 per month, let the SIL and kids have in February and ended up with a €100 bill for 2 months. That said - you do also need a sum for contingency - cooker stops working, fosse needs emptying etc.

I think that considering speedferries is a great idea - we live in Dorset and Manche and excluding wear and tear on the the car, can make the trip via Speedferries for half the BF price (unless we get vouchers from the local paper) and only 2 hours more. (so if an overnight crossing, driving is cheaper)

Another possible factor is tax - if you let others use the cottage, even if they do not pay cash, but in kind - you may be liable for income tax. BUT it is great fun and whilst I suspect we will not make any profit our of our property (and didn't buy it to do so) we have had so much fun and met so many lovely people it is worth it!! Sticking the money in an annuity might be the grown up thing to do - but who want's to be grown up! Good Luck [;-)]

[Alexis]

We crossed on Speedferries only last week and it was booked about ten days in advance.  Cost 117€ which I thought was excellent compared to other lines I looked at.  We splashed out on a very nice hotel the evening before we sailed and the night we arrived so the total was 277€.  I have travelled for a lot less with them though, and I would estimate the cost of the five returns this year at less than 500€.

We are getting too old to be zooming through the night!  It is six hours from here to Boulogne and nearly the same driving up to Yorkshire from Dover so we usually go to a hotel.  French hotels are usually cheaper and, like I said, we have discovered a charming hotel less than five minutes from the port in the old town.

[Cassis]

Speedferries start at 29 pounds single, either direction, all year round, which translates to about 85€. 

As the ferry gets filled up the price rises - usually goes up a week or two before departure in summer.

You can guarantee low prices with them by buying a ten trip voucher for 280 pounds.  The tickets can be taken anytime in the next 24 months.  It's a great deal for regular travellers.

http://www.speedferries.com/speed_offer_sv.php

Details above.

[Graham & Brenda]

Sorry if this is slightly off-subject. Before we were in a position to buy and move here we holidayed in France every year. I considered the cost of running a maison secondaire to be too high and chose to rent a gite, often in different parts of France, thus helping to discover which areas we liked best. One can hire an awful lot of gites (or stay in hotels come to that) for the running costs of a house and you don't have to spend all your holiday on maintenance, decorating etc. (Nor worrying about it when you're not there).

Just a thought........