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So are you trying to tell me that you cannot have motor insurance in the uk if you live with parents, relatives, friend or in a hotel .I somehow don't think that is the case. AXA have a policy for uk reg cars kept out of the uk with no time restrictions and are ok with a address which is out of the uk ie anywhere in the civilised bit of europe. By the way it is quite expensive to register a 26cv car in France and if you intend to keep it as some people do, for maybe 2 years then it is easier and cheaper to keep it on uk plates. One of the other reasons for buying a car in the uk is the choice have you tried to buy a 1-2 year old petrol Range Rover in france the choice is just not there and the dealer preparation is dreadfull. I might add that whatever road people wish to go down surely that is their personal choice and dosen't have anything to do with you or I. 

Yorky 

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Where you buy your car is up to you.  However, to be sure that if you kill or main  somebody that they are compensated, it should be registered and insured in the country in which it is kept.  That is the law. Personal choice is all very well - if I choose to break say, the drink driving law, is that OK?  I think not.

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You haven't answered my question about residence and insurance. Also for all you amature law practitioners what about a car leased or borrowed from a uk company. Is it forbidden to drive that in europe? As for driving whilst intoxicated then that although unadvisable and very anti-social, is your personal choice. All I can say is don't do it too often you may get caught.

Yorky

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Living with parents = resident in the UK.

Some UK car rental companies won't allow their cars to leave the UK.

When I had my own car in the UK, I always had to notify them for extra cover when I was visiting France and they gave me a green bit of paper. My sister's car is covered with her own insurance company automatically when she visits, don't know all the ins and outs, but she is a UK resident.

 

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I think that we are misssing the point a little here. If you are not UK resident, then you cannot insure a car in the UK with SAGA, and all the other companies that I have experience of. You can tell them what you want to get insurance, but if it is not the truth then they will not pay out in the event of a claim.

Whenever this subject comes up people will look for loopholes. If you think that you can go back to the UK for 3 months and live in a hotel or with parents and be legal in having insurance in your own name, then ask the insurance company, tell them the whole truth and you will have an answer.

If you want to have a 2CV to keep here in France then the French rules take over and you must register that car here in France (you are after all importing it), with French insurance.

Look as much as you want, but when you find the loophole, and think that you have cracked the problem then the legalities will always catch you out. I don't know of any insurance company that will pay out a claim without trying to find a way not to.

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[quote user="yorky"]

You haven't answered my question about residence and insurance. Also for all you amature law practitioners what about a car leased or borrowed from a uk company. Is it forbidden to drive that in europe? As for driving whilst intoxicated then that although unadvisable and very anti-social, is your personal choice. All I can say is don't do it too often you may get caught.

Yorky

[/quote]

Yorky,

An interesting slant on things - a familiar theme running thru your threads.  Fact  If you permanently export , in excess of 12 months, your vehicle you are obliged to inform DVLA of the fact.  They allow you to retain the remainder of the vehicle registration document to allow you to matriculate the vehicle overseas.  You may indeed have a MOT'd, Taxed UK vehicle with insurance but, if you have resided outside the UK for more than 12 months you are bodging the issue.

Sunday Driver may have a more authoritive note to add but this issue has been commented on dozens of times.  He is probably by now too fatigued to answer.

We are all bored with seeing the same UK reg vehicles being driven for several years without MOT and Tax - no MOT or Tax where does that leave you with insurance.

Personally if someone has not done the groundwork before leaving the UK to sort out their car within a couple of months - then they are frankly either bone idle, simple or criminally inclined.  Take your pick.

regards

Vern 

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[quote user="yorky"]

 Also for all you amature law practitioners

[/quote]

I assume you mean amateurs but that's not the point. As a motorist you are obliged to have a knowledge of the law related to motoring no matter where you live. Ignorance of the law is no defence. You need to read up on the law relating to living here (resident) and use of foreign registered vehicles, it's not exactly rocket science.

Assuming you want to be legal, of course.

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"AXA have a policy for uk reg cars kept out of the uk with no time restrictions and are ok with a address which is out of the uk ie anywhere in the civilised bit of europe."

Have they really Yorky? Perhaps you let us know which AXA office issues such a policy to a French resident? But, I bet you know somebody who has got one like that don't you, like you know all these French people who drive in the UK without changing their registrations, so its OK for the brits to do the same, right?.  The facts of it are that unless you move to the UK from France you can drive as much as you like in the UK,  the same is true as for a UK resident in France, but you will be very lucky to find a high street UK insurer who will give you an unlimited overseas travel, 90 days is the most you will get fully comp with a genuine UK address.  Although in theory you will be covered for third party risks outside of the 90 days as soon as the insurer finds out that you are lieing, and would that not be the case if you tell them that you live in the UK when you really live in France yoir insurance would be invalidated

 Yes, you can get policies in the UK for frequent overseas travel,  not from AXA though, some insurers do not even want to be told when you are out of the country, I know the RAC do one, but these are for people who live in the UK,  NOT who have an address of a relative in the UK.  So if you live in France and complete a form that says that you live in the UK, that policy is inmmediately null and void and would be declared so if you were to have an accident in France.

I know people who drive "legal" UK registered cars and bother to take them back 800miles all the way to the UK each year and MOT and tax them, why you ask as it is far cheaper and easier to get French registration and pay far less tax and insurance, they must be mad?  Well maybe not,  the truth is that most of them have "dissappeared" out here and are not registered for tax, health care etc here, but more importantly they do this to hide their gite income, all that is conveniently paid in by £ cheques to an address in the UK, so to keep under the tax radar, they don't register their cars here either as they would be in danger of being picked up to pay the taxes and contributions that they should be 

In the UK they would be called tax dodgers and scroungers, what would you call them Yorky? Clever people?

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Just to clarify the different aspects of UK/France car ownership/legislation/insurance.

If you are resident in the UK with a secondary residence (eg holiday home) in France, then you may bring your UK registered vehicle to France and use it here for a maximum of six months in any twelve month period. During this time, it must comply with UK traffic regulations in terms of current tax disc, MOT and UK insurance. That rule also covers the use of company cars, leased cars, etc.

UK insurance policies cover mandatory third party liability risks for driving in the EU, although the extension of the comprehensive cover element (ie damage to your own vehicle) is at the discretion of your insurer - they may or may not charge an additional fee for this.  UK insurers may or may not provide cover for foreign resident vehicles - it's purely a policy decision on their part.

If you become resident in France and bring your UK registered car over here, then you must immediately notify the DVLA that you've permanently exported it. The DVLA will amend it's registration status to show it as exported and once this happens, the vehicle is no longer subject to UK traffic regulations. That means it no longer requires a current tax disc, MOT or UK insurance, and this is the point where you would normally cash in any unused tax.

Once the vehicle arrives in France, it falls within French traffic regulations and it needs to be formally declared for VAT importation and registered here within one month (four months if it needs a single vehicle approval inspection). To cover this interim period, French insurers will issue a temporary certificate, then a full certificate on production of your new carte grise.

If you fail to comply with the re-registration timescales, then your French insurer has the option of rescinding your insurance. If you do have an accident whilst illegally unregistered and whilst the policy is still in force, then any third party liability is still covered, but your own losses will probably not be.

If you fail to register an imported vehicle here, then you commit an offence of driving without a valid carte grise (small fine).

If you fail to register an imported motorcycle here, then you may also be commiting an offence of using a non type approved motorcycle (very large fine and prison sentence).


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sd, NOBODY can be in any doubt after your definitive post.  thank you; as ever, your expertise has settled this particular argument.

bob t, you are right of course about saga; i do mean uk resident and not just a uk address.

someone on this thread is also right about the tax dodgers not wanting to draw attention to themselves.  we know people who have kept a house in the uk which they have let out (NOT declaring the rent, of course) and use that uk address to justify not doing anything about their cars which they are driving in france.

i just hope none of these people drive their car into me.  yorky, it's not about minding other people's business and a matter of live and let live.  this is an issue that could well involve you or me!

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]If you fail to comply with the re-registration timescales, then your French insurer has the option of rescinding your insurance. If you do have an accident whilst illegally unregistered and whilst the policy is still in force, then any third party liability is still covered, but your own losses will probably not be.

 

[/quote]

 

Well said S.D.

The 3rd party cover also applys to UK issued policies, this is what most people forget when they say "you are automatically not insured" in reality the insurers will always pay out to 3rd parties once thay have accepted the premium, it is the insured that they will get difficult with.

My car is (re)-registered and insured here, in fact overall it costs me a lot less than it did in the UK. I certainly agrre that it is false economy to return to the UK to MOT, tax and insure the vehicle, especially if they are paying for fully comp insurance which in the event of an accident will end up being T.P.O.

To make a comparison my insurance is about 20% less here, the controle technique whilst about the same price is every 2 years not 1, the registration cost (once only) is what I would pay every year for road fund license. add in the costs of ferries accomodation etc and perhaps we should be feeling sorry for these poor people who retain their UK registrations? 

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]

"AXA have a policy for uk reg cars kept out of the uk with no time restrictions and are ok with a address which is out of the uk ie anywhere in the civilised bit of europe."

Have they really Yorky? Perhaps you let us know which AXA office issues such a policy to a French resident? But, I bet you know somebody who has got one like that don't you, like you know all these French people who drive in the UK without changing their registrations, so its OK for the brits to do the same, right?.  The facts of it are that unless you move to the UK from France you can drive as much as you like in the UK,  the same is true as for a UK resident in France, but you will be very lucky to find a high street UK insurer who will give you an unlimited overseas travel, 90 days is the most you will get fully comp with a genuine UK address.  Although in theory you will be covered for third party risks outside of the 90 days as soon as the insurer finds out that you are lieing, and would that not be the case if you tell them that you live in the UK when you really live in France yoir insurance would be invalidated

 Yes, you can get policies in the UK for frequent overseas travel,  not from AXA though, some insurers do not even want to be told when you are out of the country, I know the RAC do one, but these are for people who live in the UK,  NOT who have an address of a relative in the UK.  So if you live in France and complete a form that says that you live in the UK, that policy is inmmediately null and void and would be declared so if you were to have an accident in France.

I know people who drive "legal" UK registered cars and bother to take them back 800miles all the way to the UK each year and MOT and tax them, why you ask as it is far cheaper and easier to get French registration and pay far less tax and insurance, they must be mad?  Well maybe not,  the truth is that most of them have "dissappeared" out here and are not registered for tax, health care etc here, but more importantly they do this to hide their gite income, all that is conveniently paid in by £ cheques to an address in the UK, so to keep under the tax radar, they don't register their cars here either as they would be in danger of being picked up to pay the taxes and contributions that they should be 

In the UK they would be called tax dodgers and scroungers, what would you call them Yorky? Clever people?

[/quote]

I have to correct you AXA do issue a policy for cars kept out of the uk. I wonder if you would accept a small wager on it?

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Not saying that anybody is right or wrong, but it would be interesting to find out how this insurer gets round the European rule that vehicles have to be registered and insured in the member state in which they are normally kept. It's not easy to 'keep' a vehicle in a county where you have no address. If it wasn't for this rule, I guess we could all buy our insurance in Bulgaria or somewhere.

 

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Have a look at www.stuartcollins.com they broker AXA polices. I find insurance in France quite expensive and it is quite untrue that the cost of registration is cheap. In any case it is sometimes difficult to pin point where you are a resident I spend sometime in the uk, France Ireland and Germany and I am a fiscal resident of the uk. By the way I wonder if anyone has first hand experiance of being at the wrong end of a expat driving without insurance ect or are all the tales those of the little people that appear after the second bottle of plonk?

Yorky 

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I agree that they will offer insurance of a UK vehicle kept outside of the UK for lengthy periods. But you still need to provide a UK address of some sort or another, and will have the fag of returning the vehicle to the UK for an Mot each year.
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[quote user="yorky"]Have a look at www.stuartcollins.com they broker AXA polices[/quote]I think the salient point from this site is:

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When we were moving house we wanted to use our uk registered, non adapted horse box as a removal trailer. Our Axa agent was able to get insurance for this for a month. At first he said he didn't think he would be able to so was surprised when his head office agreed.Pat.

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

[quote user="yorky"]Have a look at www.stuartcollins.com they broker AXA polices[/quote]I think the salient point from this site is:

[/quote]

Motor Insurance


We offer motor policies for UK registered vehicles that are outside the UK for the long term. The policy provides full cover across the continent of Europe, with only a few excluded countries and includes an ANNUAL Green Card. When circumstances dictate, the vehicle may be left abroad whilst the insured is in the UK. A local claims service is available in most countries.


This requires the vehicle and the insured person to be based in the UK. It is ideal for:

People who take longer and more frequent holidays to Europe than most.
Those people whose business requires frequent trips to EU countries.

Hello hello.

No it dosen't. If you are going to quote things quote the whole lot and not just the bits that suit your purpose. OMG we are all shouting at each other now.

Yorky

 

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THIS IS SHOUTING - This is emphasis - And what did I leave out that was relevant ?

Ultimately, and in his usual authoritative fashion, SD has stated the facts and I won't repeat them.

Clearly yorky you have a firm and unshakable opinion on the subject so I think there is little more to be said.

EOL

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Sorry, Yorky, but it does exclude French residents.  The quoted policies are available for UK registered vehicles that are outside the UK for the long term, but as French residents are not permitted to drive UK registered vehicles in France, then it can't apply to them. 

Only UK residents may drive UK registered vehicles in another EU member state and (with the exception of some areas of business use) only for a maximum of six months in any twelve month period. 

 

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