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I have lived in France for five years and have loved every minute of it! But what do I miss most from my earlier life in England? Compared with even the humblest supermarket in the UK, the standard of the packet ready prepared food bears no comparison! I had the mistaken idea that France, as the gourmet country of the world, would be supreme in this department! Unfortunately this is not the case.

Whilst I am on my hobby horse; what would I give to be able to get an nice crusty granary loaf or a delicious bread roll from Marks & Spencr?  In France; other than their white sticks, the rest of the breads are so hard and unappetising when you buy them.  So I have purchased a bread making machine to see if I can remedy the situation! But I don't think I can buy granary flour over here! So I am back to square one!

I know that others will say that I should cook my own meals which I do, but it would be nice and very easy to be able to slip a really appetising dish into the microwave when time is at the essence!

Does anyone else feel this way?

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No, I don't feel this way because I love cooking and now I have lots more time to cook.

I think what I do miss is being able to, say, decide I'd do an Indian, or an Italian or a Thai and know for a fact that I can pop out to Tesco's and get everything I need.  Kaffir leaves? no props, Parmesan cheese? a cinch, green curry paste or fresh coconut? all to just put your hand on.

Where I live, those things are available but I will have to drive over an hour to specialist shops, etc.  No fun if you want to cook something different on a whim or you want to treat friends to something special.

Having said that, I've managed OK but then I tend not to miss things too much and I'm enjoying doing different things with the ingredients I can get readily.

I have just bought a breadmaking machine (of which more on another thread) and I find that it's actually good fun, trying out different types of flours.

Someone is sure to come along and tell you where you can get granary flour.  In fact, Clair would probably be able to answer any culinary questions you might have!

[:D] This is my smile of encouragement..........

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[quote user="Philouis"]

I know that others will say that I should cook my own meals which I do, but it would be nice and very easy to be able to slip a really appetising dish into the microwave when time is at the essence!

Does anyone else feel this way?

[/quote]

When I cook Thai or curry or savoury pies or lots of things really - I cook double portions and stick one of them in the freezer, so that when I know time will be of the essence, out comes our ready meal and into the oven/microwave it goes...... Who needs ready meals from Marks with lots of E's [:)]

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I did get granary flour as part of my first ever British food delivery last month!

Granary is a brand of brown flour with malted wheat grains, milled by Rank Hovis.

There are equivalents in the UK, usually called "malthouse" something or other, as they cannot call themselves "granary".

I have not seen a similar flour in France yet (I was out looking today as a matter of fact!), although I know of several mills which produce a similar-sounding flour mix.

As for ready-meals, they're not high on the list of must-haves for a lot of French families. They are seen as expensive, usually because they carry a Michelin chef's name and they are mostly considered a poor alternative to 'the real thing".

Try the frozen food specialist Picard, as they have a good range of products.
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[quote user="Philouis"]

 Compared with even the humblest supermarket in the UK, the standard of the packet ready prepared food bears no comparison! I had the mistaken idea that France, as the gourmet country of the world, would be supreme in this department! Unfortunately this is not the case.

[/quote]

 

I wouldn't expect a country that respects food to excel in ready meals, in fact the idea seems quite contradictory.

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I would have to agree with Kathy on that one. As for the bread - I never knew bread was this good till I moved to France, I love campangne and would never go back to square shaped mass produced stuff.

As my wife is a great cook, we eat only home made meals including Indian, and I would not mind if I never see an English sausage again, I now like them with meat in them, that is what 4 years living here does to you.

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Sadly, France is a country that did respect food, because France's proud gastronomic reputation is in tatters according to France's chefs. Apparently, too many restaurants don't even have a real chef and it's odds-on that your canard a l'orange is just industrial frozen food straight out of the microwave.

So bad is the situation that last year a few worried French chefs got together to create a special label guaranteeing that at least 80 per cent of their dishes were in fact prepared on the premises with fresh ingredients. Maitre Restaurateur was hoping to do for France's cuisine what Camra did for real ale. But only 200 of France's 120,000 restos showed any interest.

France is McDonalds fastest growing European market and fast food is rapidly replacing the traditional family restaurant, because the average family in France just cannot afford any longer to eat at the traditional French style restaurant. It is only entrangers like us Brits that have been keeping these restos going and with the weakened £, matters will only get worse.

If you can afford to eat at Michelin star restaurants, then France can lay claim to be the gastronomic capital of the world. However, the reality for the average person is very different, when increasingly French families eat out at McDonalds or the local pizza emporium!

 

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Sorry, I can't agree at all regarding bread.  When I first started going to France regularly, over 30 years ago, I thought the baguette was fantastic compared to any bread we were getting in England back then - even though you had to buy it fresh for each meal because if you bought it for lunch it would be stale by dinner time.  But over the years, bread has improved greatly in France.  The greyer campagne breads last longer, have a good texture and are delicious.  But there is also the growing range of breads - pain aux cereales, lots of others and also that delicious vieux petrin stuff - brown with big holes in it - tastes nothing like the tasteless brown bread we get in England.  On the other hand, bread in England has improved a lot, although in my area I don't know of any small bakeries that do good bread - supermarket bread in England is now the best (unless you make it yourself).  I certainly can't agree on Marks and Spencers bread.  I was at a shop near our local M & S on Sunday and needed bread for lunch, but decided to detour to Tesco, remembering that M & S only sell pre-packed stuff and that I could get a very good walnut or mediterranean or campagne or ciabatta or Irish buttermilk bread, which had been baked on the premises that morning.  You can now get Tesco petrol stations where bread has been baked freshly - even if it does come as ready made dough, it's still better bread.  Actually, I do think that Germany is very good for bread - but can't get up much enthusiasm for German food other than Black Forest Ham.  Anyway, it's my dream to live within 15 minutes walk of a good bakery in France.  That would be one of the most important factors if buying a house in France.  When it comes to cooking, I think it comes down to whether you have enthusiasm for cooking and creating good food.  It can be done in any country if you can get the ingredients for what you want to cook.  I don't use many convenience foods, but I do think that French canned food is better than English canned food.  We use it as "emergency rations" when camping, and cassoulet, petit sale and the various cous cous cans are better than any tinned food you get in England.  Although, our usual emergency rations tends to be confit de canard, which is a bit pricier than normal tinned food.  I like the tabouleh where you mix the sauce in yourself and hey presto, in half an hour you have tabouleh. I've never tried any other types of packet ready prepared food in France as even when camping, we tend to prepare 3 course meals from scratch - but only one course when at home, so I can't compare.  I'd like to try some of the ready prepared food from a traiteur some time.  That often looks delicious, but seems expensive - if paying those prices you may as well go to a restaurant.
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[quote user="Jill"]Sorry, I can't agree at all regarding bread.  When I first started going to France regularly, over 30 years ago, I thought the baguette was fantastic compared to any bread we were getting in England back then - even though you had to buy it fresh for each meal because if you bought it for lunch it would be stale by dinner time.  But over the years, bread has improved greatly in France.  The greyer campagne breads last longer, have a good texture and are delicious.  But there is also the growing range of breads - pain aux cereales, lots of others and also that delicious vieux petrin stuff - brown with big holes in it - tastes nothing like the tasteless brown bread we get in England.  On the other hand, bread in England has improved a lot, although in my area I don't know of any small bakeries that do good bread - supermarket bread in England is now the best (unless you make it yourself).  I certainly can't agree on Marks and Spencers bread.  I was at a shop near our local M & S on Sunday and needed bread for lunch, but decided to detour to Tesco, remembering that M & S only sell pre-packed stuff and that I could get a very good walnut or mediterranean or campagne or ciabatta or Irish buttermilk bread, which had been baked on the premises that morning.  You can now get Tesco petrol stations where bread has been baked freshly - even if it does come as ready made dough, it's still better bread.  Actually, I do think that Germany is very good for bread - but can't get up much enthusiasm for German food other than Black Forest Ham.  Anyway, it's my dream to live within 15 minutes walk of a good bakery in France.  That would be one of the most important factors if buying a house in France.  When it comes to cooking, I think it comes down to whether you have enthusiasm for cooking and creating good food.  It can be done in any country if you can get the ingredients for what you want to cook.  I don't use many convenience foods, but I do think that French canned food is better than English canned food.  We use it as "emergency rations" when camping, and cassoulet, petit sale and the various cous cous cans are better than any tinned food you get in England.  Although, our usual emergency rations tends to be confit de canard, which is a bit pricier than normal tinned food.  I like the tabouleh where you mix the sauce in yourself and hey presto, in half an hour you have tabouleh. I've never tried any other types of packet ready prepared food in France as even when camping, we tend to prepare 3 course meals from scratch - but only one course when at home, so I can't compare.  I'd like to try some of the ready prepared food from a traiteur some time.  That often looks delicious, but seems expensive - if paying those prices you may as well go to a restaurant.[/quote]

I'm with you.  One of the great pleasures of having a maison secondaire in France is the food- whether we're cooking, bringing in charcuterie, or eating out.  We were lucky enough to find a house (in a small ville) within 5 minutes of a good bakery and within 2 minutes of a good restaurant.  When friends visit, they all say, "Now I understand why you love to come here."

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The bread you buy in a packet on the supermarket shelves is very poor, I agree with that.

But if you buy pain or baguette, you are getting top quality bread bettered nowhere else. I have recently discovered campagne bread and boule (I think it's called) and both are unbelievable.

I used to be able to get good bread in England, then I moved to Australia and the bread from the bakers was very poor and this disappointed me. Then I moved to France and if there's one reason that would keep me in France, then it is the bread, it is awesome. I love it. And I understand why it is so popular here with every meal.

I have also tried toasting it (baguette, pain boule etc) and it knocks spots off all other breads. But the best is frying it. Frying it in butter and crushed garlic along with capsicum, mushrooms, eggplant, tomatoes and prawns. It sucks up all the juices and is delicious.

Bread in France is a pro that out weighs any con of France and that includes the tax system!!! It is my raison d'etre!

The only thing I miss about the UK is brown sauce. 8 years in Australia and 3 here has allowed me to forget anything else I used to like over there. But brown sauce is readily available here, so is not a problem. Crispy bacon, brown sauce with any of the above bread - yummy! Oh, the other thing is fish and chips, but we've recently trained our restaurant owners into making it and adding it to their Friday night menu!

When it comes to cooking, neither of us are into it much, but Lynda cooks a whole heap of say, shepherds pie or something like that, then puts it into 500g containers and into the freezer they go, so if we want something quick and easy, it's there. She does that once a week so there's always something available. It's better than any pre packed supermarket meals plus a damn sight cheaper too. Most other nights, I do the cooking.

R.

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Sorry but no way do I accept that France is good for the food.

England is better, mainly down to the fact there is more choice, same could be said for Italy.

Here, in most villages people open a restaurant because they think they can cook, its rediculous
Yes we have had good meals but I reckon in the 5 years here (in various areas of France) 80% of the food we have had in so called restaurants has been unbelievably poor

I hate it when people say the food is good, they don't say where the food is good

French food consists of uncooked meat, lack of veg and no flavour, my other half is a veggie and finds it difficult to get anything decent

Sory, but eating a birds head with a blanket over my head isn't my cup of tea

We came to france for cheap big houses in the countryside and a bit of peace, not for the food.

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I'm with Kingdingaling on this one.  We have found food in french restaurants to be very much hit and miss affair - the occasional good one with a lot of mediocre ones turning out the same confit etc. I ditto the point re vegetables as well.  When you do get vegetables they are overcooked almost to the point of greyness. Likewise with the choice in supermarkets - the cultural mix we have in the UK gives us such a variety of food and ingredients that are just not available in France.   Maybe at one time food was better in France but there has been a big interest in food and cooking in the UK and it is reflected in the quality of the restaurants.  Many of our gourmet pubs would knock socks off the average french restaurant's offerings - and at an excellent price.

The one area where the French do beat us hands down is their local markets, butchers etc - and the focus on using fresh foods in season.  Having said that, I find meat very expensive in France.  I can't comment on ready meals because we don't buy them either in the UK or in France - I like to know what's in my food so cook everything from scratch.

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I made a comment a while back about the lack of basic ingredients available in supermarkets. In Australian stores (like Woolworths, Coles etc, the equivalent to your Intermarches, Super U's etc), there would be whole aisles dedicated to flour, basic ingredients etc. In France, we have found this stuff tucked away in small corners. The choice of vegetables is very limited too. Unless of course you go to the mega large hypermarches, but they are an hours drive away for us, too far just for shopping. There are other things which I would have thought the French supermarkets would have been great for, but are lacking in comparison to Australia, and it has surprised me. For a country that basis its culture around food, we have found this surprising. This isn't a complaint, just an observation.

But French bread still rules!

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[quote user="LyndaandRichard"]I made a comment a while back about the lack of basic ingredients available in supermarkets. In Australian stores (like Woolworths, Coles etc, the equivalent to your Intermarches, Super U's etc), there would be whole aisles dedicated to flour, basic ingredients etc. In France, we have found this stuff tucked away in small corners.
[/quote]

I imagine that the culture of buying fresh bread and cakes from the patisserie means that France has less of a baking tradition than other countries, like the UK, where the emphasis was on making bread and cakes at home. As far as vegetables goes, I rather like the fact that the supermarkets aren't full of out of season vegetables, jetted in from round the world.

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Because I am bored I will stick my two pennorth in....... French food superiority is a total MYTH. The same can be said for the idea that French wine is best just because its French.

I have lived in various parts of the World for many years and have had 'proper' food poisoning only twice, both times in France and that after eating at  so-called good restaurants frequented by the local populace.

There is very little to touch good English (possibly British) cooking, but Italian comes closest. 

The best of French bread is Boulot in Normandy, the rest is best used as a door stop after the first couple of hours. German or Californian wine, with the odd South African.or Australian. Some French wine is very nice of course, but then again so is some English wine, or Bulgarian or Chilean etc. ( never met a good NZ wine though).

I just wish I could find a decent Italian resto in Manche.

As for Indian or Arabic quisine, best left to the Indians and Arabs. (cous-cous, mutabal, tabbouleh etc)

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[quote user="powerdesal"]
I just wish I could find a decent Italian resto in Manche.

[/quote]

I know one, cheap and cheerful rather than top-notch, and the smattering of French dishes to keep the locals, or more so the tourists, happy. But very good.

Food in France, compared with Britain and most of the rest of the civilised world, lacks one thing. Variety. That doesn't matter so much if you are a holiday home owner but what you can get in the restaurants and supermarkets soon gets tiring when you have it all the time. Even if the quality is good (which I think is often debatable anyway). However the 'sameness' is a regional/national thing rather than a 'MacDonalds' idea of universal uniformity, and bread is a good example. Go to any boulangerie and the range looks much the same in any shop, but from one or two it will taste fantastic while in the rest it will be mediocre.

There are some good ready meals available, but compared with the decent ones (not the cheapie value range) from British shops they are expensive and, again, limited in choice. This is nice, for example, otherwise a chef like Robuchon would not put his name to it, but you couldn't eat it every day.

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[quote]never met a good NZ wine though)[/quote]

Incredible! Just how many NZ wines have you tried? I have had dozens and dozens of excellent ones (especially Pinot Noir but also Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc and others). For best relation qualité/prix (NZ) I'd go for almost anything from Brajkovich (though there are loads of others) - look for "Kumeu River" - the Mates Vineyard Chardonnay is absolutely fantastic (and only about €25; which may be more than you usually pay for a bottle but is cheap for what's in it).

Although my own "favourite" Chardonnay and Pinot Noir (relation qualité/prix - €17) are both French (the same producer!) from near Burgundy. Quality Bourgogne taste at (comparatively) very low price.

As for bread; in the UK we hardly ever found anything decent after we moved out of London (the supermarket stuff was generally rubbish, Sainsburys being especially sub-standard ca. 2000-2006 and the "specialist" bakers were usually even worse - fortunately my wife made most of ours). Here, we have two decent bakers (4-5 different breads) 7km away (nearest shops) and two great ones (6-7 types each, most of them as good as I've tasted anywhere) 15-20km away (nearer than our nearest decent size town).

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It's personal taste.

We've never found a 'good' Chardonnay at any price - but plenty of people like it. Sauvignon blanc from New Zealand is excellent, as is a lot of Chilean and Argentine.

I have also found Sainsbury's bread to be very good, much better than 90% of what we find in France, though our best baker there, with a good reputation for many km round, is just 3km or so from our house.

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Chessfou, you will note that I said I had never met a good NZ wine, I did not say there were none. Availability of  the type of wine selection you have in (say) London is not too common here in the Emirates. Our selection is acceptable for where we are but limited in comparison with other more liberal parts of the Globe.

I would echo Will here, I am not a fan of chardonnay in any guise, and as for paying E25 for a bottle of ANY wine, well no thank you. Thats a quarter of the price of some decent power tools !!!!

Your E17 being a (comparitively) very low price means you are prepared to pay a hell of a lot more for a bottle of wine than I am.

My disposable income does not run to that sort of wine pricing and, even if it did, I am pretty sure it wouldn't.

Each to his own on bread choice. We have a bread making machine.

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It's all a matter of personal taste. I find I eat far better in France than I ever did in the UK and that there is far more harmony with the seasons than I ever got in the UK.

I found the "choice" in the UK was largely an illusion: same old pap, different flavourings. In fact, I concluded that "choice" was far more important than any other quality in the UK food industry, including taste. But I reckon French bread is over rated, though only when compared with that ever-rarer thing an artisan baker in the UK. The French I feel have never really understood wholemeal bread believing it to be some kind od offensive weapon rather than a foodstuff.

I'm also of the opinion that Italian food - for the most part - is grossly over rated. I travelled extensively in Italy - both business and personal trips - and always worried that the food never did it for me. It was either far too heavily flavoured or disgustingly bland. I purchased restaurant guides, sought recommendations from locals and collegues and still came away thinking it was all rather poor and not a little dull. It's not as if I'm scared of trying new things (family motto: "Try everything once except incest and folk dancing") but I worried that what was sold as Italian in the UK seemed to use better quality ingredients (and in season) and achieved far more interesting flavours.

I felt rather guilty aboiut this.

Then I read "Floyd on Italy" and discovered that I wasn't alone.
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I get very confused with the French and food. We have lived in several different countries, and I think it would be true to say my wife has experienced food which the average French person never will in their lifetime. Most of her family have never tried anything apart from local cuisine (and the ubiquitous McDo!, and pizza emporter!), so when they pontificate about the superiority of French cuisine I tend to switch off. They have no experience of the alternatives, and we've given up trying to show them the rror of there ways. But hey, this is a country that thinks vegetables come out of a tin!

If I drew up a list of the 10 worst restaurant meals I have ever had, 9 of them would be in France, and 1 in Valencia.

As regards the bread situation, I think this needs to be taken in context. I reckon I have had better and more varied bread in the UK from Waitrose, at about the same price as here in France. The same applies to meat and veg, let's compare like with like, on the basis of cost, remember how expensive food is in France compared to the UK. Well the quality is better, however if you pay the same price in the UK, you can get equally good quality.

I have to buy at supermarkets, because the local shops are shut when I have time to shop (don't get me going on THAT subject), and the quality of the supermarket food compared to the UK or Spain is garbage.

Rant over. This subject touched a nerve!! 

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[quote user="velcorin"]

I get very confused with the French and food. We have lived in several different countries, and I think it would be true to say my wife has experienced food which the average French person never will in their lifetime. Most of her family have never tried anything apart from local cuisine (and the ubiquitous McDo!, and pizza emporter!), so when they pontificate about the superiority of French cuisine I tend to switch off. They have no experience of the alternatives, and we've given up trying to show them the rror of there ways. But hey, this is a country that thinks vegetables come out of a tin!

If I drew up a list of the 10 worst restaurant meals I have ever had, 9 of them would be in France, and 1 in Valencia.

As regards the bread situation, I think this needs to be taken in context. I reckon I have had better and more varied bread in the UK from Waitrose, at about the same price as here in France. The same applies to meat and veg, let's compare like with like, on the basis of cost, remember how expensive food is in France compared to the UK. Well the quality is better, however if you pay the same price in the UK, you can get equally good quality.

I have to buy at supermarkets, because the local shops are shut when I have time to shop (don't get me going on THAT subject), and the quality of the supermarket food compared to the UK or Spain is garbage.

Rant over. This subject touched a nerve!! 

[/quote]

Huit a huit is my favourite. We have one in our village, and when we first arrived we thought, that's not too bad as far as opening times go (I mean we have 7 to 11 in Australia that open from 7am to 11pm). Then we discovered the real opening times.....

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[quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]...I worried that what was sold as Italian in the UK seemed to use better quality ingredients (and in season) and achieved far more interesting flavours.

I felt rather guilty aboiut this.

[/quote]

Nothing to feel guilty about, it's probably true, at least as a generalisation. In fact you could say much the same about many other national cuisines, including French - they are better outside their home country.

And that's something you couldn't really say about English restaurant/pub food. Try finding that elsewhere (barring the pale imitations in expat communities).

One beef about French restaurants is the cost of the wine. Although most wines are significantly cheaper in the shops in France, we usually end up paying more for a bottle in a restaurant than we do for the equivalent in England. And as for the bottled water...

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