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[quote user="5-element"]Grecian - Incapacity benefits (are you talking about long-term Incapacity Benefit from the UK?)are not to be entered in your Tax return, it does not count as income anywhere, and you should not have to pay any tax on it whatsoever. At least this is our experience.[/quote]

According to the information that we were given last year by the Impôts (our first year of declaring in France), UK long term incapacity benefit is taxable in France even if it is not taxable in the UK.

Of course, as has already been mentioned on this thread, this may have been incorrect information from the Impôts. [:)]

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[quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="5-element"]Grecian - Incapacity benefits (are you talking about long-term Incapacity Benefit from the UK?)are not to be entered in your Tax return, it does not count as income anywhere, and you should not have to pay any tax on it whatsoever. At least this is our experience.[/quote]

According to the information that we were given last year by the Impôts (our first year of declaring in France), UK long term incapacity benefit is taxable in France even if it is not taxable in the UK.

Of course, as has already been mentioned on this thread, this may have been incorrect information from the Impôts. [:)]



[/quote]

 

Wow! Curiouser and curiouser!

We were definitely told in our local Hotel des Impots, not to enter OH's Incapacity Benefit from the UK anywhere on our tax declaration.... since this is the  same tax office who insist that we do have to pay Contributions Sociales on a UK State Pension (wrong), it seems to me that perhaps  regional variations and (mis)interpretations are considerable?!

But wait a minute: Incapacity Benefit is the equivalent of the French AAH (Allocation Adulte Handicape). Doesn't it say clearly in the small print at the back of the Tax declaration that AAH is not taxable? Is this another discrepancy?

 

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Did a bit of research on my case, and as it is a government military war pension, I have used this legislation to guide me : (sorry for long winded bit)

UK/FRANCE DOUBLE TAXATION CONVENTION

SIGNED IN LONDON ON 28 JANUARY 2004

ARTICLE 20

GOVERNMENT SERVICE

(1) Salaries, wages and other similar remuneration, other than a

pension, paid by a Contracting State or a local authority thereof, or by a

statutory body of either, to an individual in respect of services rendered to

that State, authority or statutory body shall be taxable only in that State.

However, such salaries, wages and other similar remuneration shall be

taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that

State and the individual is a resident and a national of that State without

being also a national of the first-mentioned State.

(2) Any pension paid by, or out of funds created by, a Contracting State

or a local authority thereof, or by a statutory body of either, to an individual

in respect of services rendered to that State, authority or statutory body shall

be taxable only in that State. However, such pension shall be taxable only in

the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident and a national of

that State without being also a national of the first-mentioned State.

(3) The provisions of Articles 16, 17 and 19 of this Convention shall

apply to salaries, wages and other similar remuneration and to pensions in

respect of services rendered in connection with a business carried on by a

Contracting State or a local authority thereof or by a statutory body of either.

(4) Notwithstanding any provision of this Convention:

(a) the pensions referred to in paragraph (4) of Article 81 of the French

tax code (code général des impôts) shall be exempt from United

Kingdom tax, regardless of the nationality of the pensioner, so long

as they are exempt from French tax ;

(b) the pensions referred to in Section 315(2) of the Income and

Corporation Taxes Act 1988 and injury and disablement pensions

payable under any scheme made under the Pensions (Navy, Army,

Air Force and Mercantile Marine) Act 1939 or the Personal Injuries

(Emergency Provisions) Act 1939 shall be exempt from French tax,

regardless of the nationality of the pensioner, so long as they are

exempt from United Kingdom tax. However, paragraph (2) of this

Article shall apply to such part of any income from those pensions

as is not exempted from United Kingdom tax.

So I guess it should be declared but not taxed but I have received advice that as it is non taxable in Uk and under agreement above non taxable in France , then no need to declare it, I bow to others with a better insight, seems a bit of a mess. Your thoughts as always - invaluable

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In our listing of income sources which we took along to the Impôts we called it Une pension d'invaidité du gouvernment G-B which was the best translation we could make at the time.

We explained that the benefit was not taxable in the UK as it had been awarded before 1995 (or was it 1992?) but they insisted it was taxable in France.

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[quote]Also, is it possible to download the tax return online, this will be our first French tax return as we arrived in June 2006?[Bertiebe][/quote]

No, assuming what I was told is correct.

I wanted to submit online but was told that this is impossible for a first submission.

My next question was can I download a tax return (after all it will be simply a form "vierge") but the answer was "no" - got to pick it up from the local Hotel des Imp/o\ts (or, maybe, mairie).

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[quote user="Benjamin"]In our listing of income sources which we took along to the Impôts we called it Une pension d'invaidité du gouvernment G-B which was the best translation we could make at the time.

We explained that the benefit was not taxable in the UK as it had been awarded before 1995 (or was it 1992?) but they insisted it was taxable in France.

[/quote]

I would take the view that AAH is not taxable in France as it is means tested.

DLA may be on the basis that disability pensions (with certain exceptions such as military) are subject to tax and social charges and that DLA is not subject to means testing in France.

Military disability pensions are tax free in France.

On the point about varying advice from tax offices, this is taken from the latest tax newsletter published by PKF Guernsey

"Unfortunately, it appears that a great deal of well-meaning expatriates have been

wrongly advised by none other than their local tax offices. Some even seem to state that the

receipt of foreign source income simply dispenses the recipient from filing a resident tax return.

This is simply not true."

And that's talking about the need to fill in a return or not!!!

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[quote user="chessfou"][quote]Also, is it possible to download the tax return online, this will be our first French tax return as we arrived in June 2006?[Bertiebe][/quote]

No, assuming what I was told is correct.

I wanted to submit online but was told that this is impossible for a first submission.

My next question was can I download a tax return (after all it will be simply a form "vierge") but the answer was "no" - got to pick it up from the local Hotel des Imp/o\ts (or, maybe, mairie).

[/quote]

Most expats will need to ask for forms 2042, 2047 and 3916.

For the second year you can register online.

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[quote user="Bluebells"]Leslauriers, many thanks re the military war pension bit, whats your stance from knowledge on whether it should be declared as income or not, it seems a complete mess, one way or the other , thanks[/quote]

The tax return form is very clear on military disability pensions

SOMMES A NE PAS DECLARER

  • la retraite mutualiste du combattant ;
  • les pensions militaires d'invalidité et de victime de guerre ;

On DLA

SOMMES A DECLARER CASES AS à ES

  • les sommes perçues au titre des retraites publiques ou privées ;
  • les rentes et pensions d'invalidité imposables, servies par les

    organismes de sécurité sociale ;

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Last year we filled in our first tax return, I downloaded and printed off the relevant forms from the impots website and submitted them - no problems.

Incidentally we hand-delivered them to the tax office and when we explained it was our first go, the guy on the desk opened it all up there and then to check everything was ok (it was!)

Lou

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I am one of those commuters, except I see the family every 4-6 weeks for 9 days or so.  I am a military chap with government salary.  I transfer approx half my salary to France each month - God Bless JPA (Bob T knows what I am talking about).  I understand that under the dual taxation agreement that I will have no further tax to pay.  NIC contributions take care of the health thru Newcastle.  I have no wish to upset the french authorities, regional or national!

Question:  What field(s) of F2402(?) does SWBO have to complete to satisfy the french tax authorities for the previous FY (Jan thru Dec)? 

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[quote user="Leslauriers"]

SOMMES A NE PAS DECLARER

  • la retraite mutualiste du combattant ;

  • les pensions militaires d'invalidité et de victime de guerre ;

On DLA

SOMMES A DECLARER CASES AS à ES

  • les sommes perçues au titre des retraites publiques ou privées ;

  • les rentes et pensions d'invalidité imposables, servies par les organismes de sécurité sociale ;


[/quote]

and/but... also in Sommes a ne pas declarer:

* l'allocation aux Adultes Handicapes

so I presume that some advisers, in Centres des Impots, put Long-Term Incapacity Benefit in Sommes a declarer, and others put it in Sommes a ne pas Declarer.

Strictly speaking, you are right, LTIC is taxable in the UK and not means-tested (or is it now, I thought it had changed in the past few years?) - therefore, theoretically, it should be taxable here.

But, if the official tax advisor decides that it is exactly the same as the French AAH... which they definitely do in my local, then....

In our case I believe it would not make a difference to the final outcome - but that is neither here nor there, it would be good to have the definitive version, as we say in French, "ils devraient accorder leurs violons!"

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Lou

Thanks for this info.  Could you please give link to Impot website, I have got several different addresses and not sure which is right, also give clue to where to find the relevant Tax forms to download on said website?

Thanks for help

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

As for the poster above, I believe you will have to pay the 0.5% social charge on your UK pension too.  Otherwise, you seem to have it bang on. 

Try this

http://www3.finances.gouv.fr/calcul_impot/2007/simplifie/index.htm

on-line tax calculator (provided by the estimable Mr S Driver).

[/quote]

Beg to differ CL but if they have an E 121 they should not have to pay the 0.5% social charges levied on income, some,  in fact many tax offices will tell you that you have to pay it but as SD had proved, you do not have to pay it whilst your health charges are covered by the UK as they are whilst you are in possession of an E 121 or E 106

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[quote user="5-element"]

[quote user="Sharkster"]

English Version

I called at your office on last Thursday to complete the CMU form and made a mistake with the figures. I would like to complete the form again with the correct figures and would appreciate it if you could telephone Montpellier to inform them of my error.

Je suis venu a votre bureau jeudi dernier, pour remplir le formulaire CMU et j'ai commis une (grosse) erreur avec les chiffres. Je voudrais donc remplir un nouveau formulaire avec les chiffres corrects, et je vous serais reconnaissant de bien vouloir telephoner a Montpellier pour les informer de mon erreur.

Avec mes remerciements anticipes.

[/quote]

 

Try this, Sharkster. And good luck.

[/quote]

I thought I would give you all an update.  I today received confirmation of cover from CPAM, dated cover from 15/2 (my first visit).  I am not sure what figures they have used but I would guess I will receive an attestation soon and hopefully they used the correct figures, but at least we have medical cover again now.

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  • 2 weeks later...
[quote user="5-element"]Hooray, Shrakster, and thanks for the update. Hopefully, they did use the revised figures.[/quote]

The plot thickens... We have received the attestation and my wife is not covered at the moment and has "a justifier" next to her name and also they have recorded her maiden name and not married name.  I am going to go to the CPAM office again tomorrow do people think a copy of the avis d'impot (we have one where we declared all our income on, not seperate ones) her birth certificate and our marriage certificate would probably be enough information?

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[quote user="Will"]Don't worry, it is very common (maybe even standard?) to use the maiden name - often with the married name noted afterwards as 'épouse'.[/quote]

My main concern is the " a justifier" bit which when literally translated means has to be justified?  I am thinking they have not realised my wife is the same person who is declared on my avis d'impot

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