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Sharkster
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5-element

Your local tax office have got it wrong.  This is not uncommon, given that declarations relating to foreign pension earnings are generally not an everyday occurance with them.

I had the same problem with my own tax office.  They'd insisted I complete box TL with my foreign pension but when I subsequently researched matters, I discovered that this was incorrect, given that I was currently registered for healthcare under an E106.

So, I e-mailed them to point out the error and they initially responded by saying all foreign revenues taxable in France were subject to CRDS as it was an obligatory social contribution. Because my British pension was taxable in France, it was therefore subject to CRDS.

I responded by pointing out the content of their own tax guidance note 2041GG which stated that foreign salaries and pensions are subject to CRDS under the same conditions as unearned income whenever these incomes are taxable by virtue of the applicable fiscal convention, and when the individual is under the charge of a French obligatory healthcare scheme of whatever nature. 

I also reminded them that although my income was taxable in France, I was not under the charge of a French obligatory healthcare scheme.  On the contrary, I was covered by the UK healthcare regime under my E106, and according to the EU Court of Justice decision of 15 February 2000. - EU Commission -v- République Française (Case no C-34/98), my UK pension cannot be subject to CRDS.

All went quite for a week, then they e-mailed me back to say that I was correct after all and that a refund of the CRDS would be processed within a week.

Your 2007 tax declaration will be pre-completed, but only with your personal details (figures are only entered if supplied by an employer).  So, for this year, you should omit box TL.  If you do want to challenge the old charge, PM me and I'll send you copies of my correspondance.  There is no reason why your tax office should make things difficult for you - their duty is to apply the regulations as they are specified in current tax law.

PS: By the way, box TL only applies to earned income/pensions.  If you include unearned income such as savings interest, it'll generate a duplicate CRDS charge because CRDS is already applied under box TS.

 

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Sharkster, its not a brilliant translation but it will get you by and they will know what you are saying

I am not going to re translate it all but just simplify it and  take out a few errors that might confuse, good rule in French is keep it simple!!

J'ai visité votre bureau jeudi dernier pour compléter la forme de CMU.  Je crois que j'ai fait une erreur avec les figures..  Je voudrais compléter la forme encore avec les figures correctes, parce que j'utilise les revenus de 2006 pas 2005.  J'ai l'avis des impots pour 2005 ici.

Merci

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My understanding is that there are 3 social contributions (CGS, CRDS and PS).

From the previous posts I understand that on UK company and State pensions the following is chargable:-

If covered by E106 or E121:-

No CGS, CRDS or PS chargeable.

If not covered by E106 or E121:-

Only CRDS (0.5%) chargable.

Have I got this correct.

Thanks,

Glyn

 

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SD

Thank you so much - your experience is fantastically useful, and it confirms, point for point, what I had been told elsewhere. It comforts me into resolving not to be such a wimp this coming year - I will now process all the information you send - this is helping me so much in deciding how I will go about it, as they so doggedly refuse to look at the evidence at my local tax office. I will PM you if I stumble on any legal/official term at all, since you kindly offered.

I will not bother to try and reclaim the social tax I paid in Nov. 2006, I had 2 months to contest after my first complaint, and I let time slide, it is now too late.

re. your PS. My mistake, sorry,of course you are right that TL is only for earned income and pensions. Any unearned income has to go into TS.

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[quote user="Glyn"]

My understanding is that there are 3 social contributions (CGS, CRDS and PS).

From the previous posts I understand that on UK company and State pensions the following is chargable:-

If covered by E106 or E121:-

No CGS, CRDS or PS chargeable.

If not covered by E106 or E121:-

Only CRDS (0.5%) chargable.

Have I got this correct.

Thanks,

Glyn

[/quote]

Just to clarify this, and I hope not to confuse further, the answer is only yes if Glyn has no unearned income in addition to a UK company or state pension.  If he has unearned income then he will pay CGS and PS on the UNEARNED income and that is declared on his income tax return.  It is billed separately to income tax and health care contributions.

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]Sharkster, its not a brilliant translation but it will get you by and they will know what you are saying

I am not going to re translate it all but just simplify it and  take out a few errors that might confuse, good rule in French is keep it simple!!

J'ai visité votre bureau jeudi dernier pour compléter la forme de CMU.  Je crois que j'ai fait une erreur avec les figures..  Je voudrais compléter la forme encore avec les figures correctes, parce que j'utilise les revenus de 2006 pas 2005.  J'ai l'avis des impots pour 2005 ici.

Merci[/quote] I'm not sure whether this is still a translation question, but just in case it is, the English contains a couple of traps for the unwary:

(1) une forme in French doesn't mean "a form" in the sense of a printed document to be filled in - the French is un formulaire

(2) les figures in French doesn't mean "the figures" - the French is les chiffres

In any case, bonne chance!

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Most enlightening thread this, very informative regarding what is and what is not liable to CSG, CRDS and RS, although I think I already had this clear in my head, thanks to previous questions asked in an earlier thread, and excellently answered.

I have a further question regarding as to what the dear old social charges apply to.

Could anybody tell me if incapacity benefit payments are liable please, as I have been unable to find anything regarding this payment via my searches of this site.

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Yes 5-element I am talking long-term incapacity benefit,  which my wife receives for three ailments she has to endure life with. Very interesting to note that the payment does not have to be entered on your tax return, not to say financially beneficial as well.

Many thanks for the info.

 

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AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH. I think I have a headache! When I read the 'Living France' guide to living and working in France (2006) the section on income tax said that if you pay that tax in one EU state you will not be further taxed on it in the state in which you live. My wife and I are both police pensioners and our pensions are taxed in the UK. Am I right in thinking that all we have to pay is our health charges (8% ish) of our gross pension income (we have no other)? I know this has probably all been discussed before but I still can't quite get to the bottom of it.

 

Steve.

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Am I right in thinking that all we have to pay is our health charges (8% ish) of our gross pension income (we have no other)? I know this has probably all been discussed before but I still can't quite get to the bottom of it.

Yes.  Any other charges would be levied on unearned income like  interest from capital invested in the UK from house sales and redundancy or lump sum payments.

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The 8% is actually charged on your "Revenu Fiscal de reference" which is less than the gross (in effect it is your income less allowances.)  However, if I have understood Sunday Driver and others correctly, you are also liable for the 0.5% Social Charge ( the money that goes towards paying off the national debt) on the gross income.  Your tax office will help you - they are very good to me.  You do need to fill in a French tax form, whether you pay the tax in the UK or not. I'm assuming that you pay in the UK as the Police pension is technically a government one?
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Well what a thread my head truly hurts now, Ron et al a little indulgence please as I am completely lost with this, have researched till the cows come home, can you tell me if I am right :

Receive UK MOD and UK Local Authority pensions - taxed in UK, no liablility in France but to be declared on French Tax Form

Receive UK Veterans War Pension - paid tax free in UK and should not be declared on a French Tax Return as also tax Free in France under agreements

Receive E121 covering my wife and I so no whatever it is to pay re cositations, just the two of us here

Have received some very samll premium bond wins (£200) and bank interest money (less than £2) and flotation money (tax free) from Standard Life which I take has to be declared as world wide income and to be taxed, with the tax season rapidly approaching I just want to be correct, as this will be our first declaration

many thanks from a confused man (nothing knew there then)

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Hi

Great information on tax for us new arrivals here, thank you.  Sorry to add another question to the pot, but we receive rental income on a property in the UK and we believed that this income had to be taxed in the UK.  Recently however, we were advised by a Financial Adviser that we would have to declare and pay French tax on the UK rental income and that the french tax office would not look favourably upon us paying tax in the UK.  Can anyone advise if this is correct please?

Also, is it possible to download the tax return online, this will be our first French tax return as we arrived in June 2006?

Many thanks

Chris (Bertiebe's other half)

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Sorry everyone just read the thread re "Rental Income and UK Tax Return", seems as though there is a lot of mixed advice out there on this subject and difficult to know what is the best solution.  I assume if we pay tax in the UK, then we will declare info on French tax return and this information will still be used as basis for our charges to join the French health system once the E106 has expired?

Any info gratefully received.

Chris (Bertiebe's other half)

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