Opening an UK bank account from France

[ThomasD]

I made the terrible mistake of closing my bank account in the UK shortly after I arrived in France (it seemed the right thing to do at the time). Now, with the wonders of hindsight I wish I had not. Has anyone tried to open a bank account in the Uk from France? I have seen a few discussions/posts about opneing an account with one or other bank account before leaving the UK, and the giving a French address - but nothing about opening one from within France.

Thanks [:D]

[AnOther]

Hmm, a tricky one. You might try with one of the UK banks operating in france, Barclays perhaps, but I fear you'll find it hard going.

The UK banks seem to impose draconian requirements for new accounts when all they are in fact required to do is take reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that an applicant is who he or she claims to be hence the annecdotal tales of little old ladies of 60 years standing with the same bank being forced to produce all manner of ID to open a 2 1/2d savings account and yet they still fail to stop the real ID thieves. 

Not wishing to be nosey but why do you suddenly feel the need for a UK account ?

I'm fairly certain others will be watching this thread with interest.

[Benjamin]

I take it you're looking to reopen a current account as opposed to a savings account which you could easily do with an Offshore branch of one of the UK banks.

You could try looking on the British Bankers Association website (www.bba.org.uk) or there is a student website (www.ukstudentlife.com) which has a useful section on the type of documentation required to open a UK based account.

Depending on how long ago you closed your UK bank account it may be possible to reopen it with them without producing any identifying paperwork. That's of course if you didn't tell them where to stick their account when you closed it. [6]

[Gluestick]

[quote]The UK banks seem to impose draconian requirements for new accounts when all they are in fact required to do is take reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that an applicant is who he or she claims [/quote]

Actually, Ernie, all organisations dealing with money have to go through pretty rigorous and robust proceedures these days, due to the money laundering regs and Proceeds of Crime Act.

If I do not (i) Ensure a new client is absolutely who they say they are and (ii) Maintain a specific register and audit trail demonstrating that each step has been completed and how it has been completed, I can be banged up and fined up to £100,000!

Of course, there are more serious offences: smoking in a public place for example! [blink]

What about an online bank?

http://www.smile.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Smile/Page/smView&c=Page&cid=1023953608805

 

 

[ThomasD]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Not wishing to be nosey but why do you suddenly feel the need for a UK account ?

[/quote]

[:-))] Nothing sinister or dodgy ... I assure you! It would make a few things easier. When I left the UK I was all for being in France, and everything that that entails. After three years - I wish I had not been so naive!

[quote user="ErnieY"]

I'm fairly certain others will be watching this thread with interest.

[/quote]

Why?[:D]

[quote user="Benjamin"]I take it you're looking to reopen a current account as opposed to a savings account which you could easily do with an Offshore branch of one of the UK banks.

You could try looking on the British Bankers Association website (www.bba.org.uk) or there is a student website (www.ukstudentlife.com) which has a useful section on the type of documentation required to open a UK based account.

[/quote]

Thanks for this - I shall investigate and report back ...if, as Ernie says, a lot of people will be interested[geek] Yes, its a current account I want.

[quote user="Benjamin"]
Depending on how long ago you closed your UK bank account it may be possible to reopen it with them without producing any identifying paperwork. That's of course if you didn't tell them where to stick their account when you closed it. [6]
[/quote]

I was not happy with my bank ... and was only to happy to close the account. No, sadly I did not do it with any melodramatic flourish! Maybe that was a good thing[;-)]

I am intrigued with Gluestick's remark. While I do not doubt that there are procedures now required to be followed (re terrorism and money laundering etc), the way in which these tend to be operationalised is idiosyncratic to say the least.

[ThomasD]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

What about an online bank?

http://www.smile.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Smile/Page/smView&c=Page&cid=1023953608805

[/quote]

Thanks for the thought Gluestick - but I can now confirm.....one has "to be a UK resident and have a UK address" to open an account with Smile ...I kid you not[+o(]

[Gluestick]

[quote]

I am intrigued with Gluestick's remark. While I do not doubt that there are procedures now required to be followed (re terrorism and money laundering etc), the way in which these tend to be operationalised is idiosyncratic to say the least. [/quote]

Oh I do agree: it's all a load of nonsense, in the way it's invariably operated at the sharp end.

But then so much UK legislation is nonsense in practice.

In the same way, whenever I telephone various organisations on behalf of clients, they now refuse to talk to me unless my client has provided a signed mandate. Despite the fact that I am able to quote all the references, figures, data etc. And of course, criminals are actually queuing outside the tax office to pay other people's tax..................[:-))]

Data Protection Act is always quoted.

Which is fine, as far as it goes.

Playing the Devil's Advocate [6], as I am wont to do, I had a call from  BT, so they said, from India.

All apart from the fact that I could hardly hear the caller and could hardly understand the awful muttered broken English, I astounded them by refusing pointblank to discuss any of my personal affairs until and unless they could somehow prove who they were! I cited the high current incidence of identity theft that has been occuring from Asian call centres.

That conversation didn't last over-long!

 

[suein56]

[quote user="ThomasD"]

I made the terrible mistake of closing my bank account in the UK shortly after I arrived in France (it seemed the right thing to do at the time). Now, with the wonders of hindsight I wish I had not. [/quote]

It is nigh on impossible to do what you wish I fear (unless someone knows better then me - hopefully they do.) I think that you will be stuck with opening a current account with an offshore branch of a UK Bank. Unfortunately this, though possible, is expensive - very expensive to those us used to 'free' UK current accounts. The IOM or Channel Island offshoots know that they have you where they want you (dangling on the end of their string), and they have every intention of  financially benefitting from the experience. 

NB To repeat an oft heard refrain - I wish I had opened a Nationwide current account before leaving the UK. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Sue

[jxedwards]

An aunt of mine emigrated to USA when she was 27. At the age of 80+ she spent a year in the UK with family. She tried to open an account but did not check the right boxes and had no utility bills etc. despite having served 3 years for King and country in WW2 and showing papers to that effect she could not open an account to Xfer funds from USA. Not even intervention from the local MP was of any assistance.

Sorry does not help you but just highlights the problem to others who may be tempted to close their UK accounts.

[Gluestick]

This one?

http://www.bankofscotlandinternational.com/Banking/Flexible-Plus-Current-Account.asp

 

[ThomasD]

This looks promising Gluestick! Thanks [B] They are not 24/7 so will let you all know if .......

[ThomasD]

[quote user="jxedwards"]

Sorry does not help you but just highlights the problem to others who may be tempted to close their UK accounts.

[/quote]

DONT DO IT [:-))][:-))]

[AnOther]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

This one?

http://www.bankofscotlandinternational.com/Banking/Flexible-Plus-Current-Account.asp

[/quote]If you read the details of the verifications required to open an A/C they are pretty onerous http://www.bankofscotlandinternational.com/Download/Verification.pdf  plus there is a minimum deposit of £5k which may or may not be an issue.

[ThomasD]

Yeah, I notice that too Ernie. I did smile inwardly thinking that if I had £5K to sit languishing in an account I probably would not be wanting another account anyway [:)]

But, I did not think the verification process was any more onerous than what I went through to open my first French bank account - the positive point was that the staff spoke English, this they did, but clearly they did not know what they were talking about. Now I did tell them where to stick their account. I found the the local French Bank to be very helpful, honest and friendly - and opening that account was as easy as falling off a bike.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

[quote]The UK banks seem to impose draconian requirements for new accounts when all they are in fact required to do is take reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that an applicant is who he or she claims [/quote]

Actually, Ernie, all organisations dealing with money have to go through pretty rigorous and robust proceedures these days, due to the money laundering regs and Proceeds of Crime Act.

If I do not (i) Ensure a new client is absolutely who they say they are and (ii) Maintain a specific register and audit trail demonstrating that each step has been completed and how it has been completed, I can be banged up and fined up to £100,000!

Of course, there are more serious offences: smoking in a public place for example! [blink]

[/quote]I appreciate your comments and of couse it's quite right that the neccessary and appropriate steps are taken, with appropriate being the key word. Invariably though the systems lack any sense of proportion or perspective and basically label everybody guilty until proven innnocent when, just like security in other areas such as airports for instance, the application of a little common sense could eliminate the vast majority of people as anything other than Mr and Mrs Joe public going about his or her lawful daily business.

I'd be interested to know if there any specific govenment laid down procedures for ID verification or just guidelines to operate within and that being the case, what those guidelines are.

[Gluestick]

You must be really bored, Ernie, mate! or very much in need of a seriously good headache!

I have to comply with this nonsense!

The draft regulations now mean that professional bodies who are members of the CCAB will provide registration, compliance and audit of compliance: those in practice and outside a CCAB body will be registered and tested annually by HM Revenue and Customs. As if they didn't have enough to do already!

Previously, it was up to a responsible person (or practice or firm of company) to report suspected money laundering or acts which could be deeemed benefiting from the proceeds of a crime, to report this to NCIS (National Criminal Intelligence Service).

Failure to report (even a suspicion!) meant potential prosecution with swingeing penalties and punishment!

So, not surprisingly, in order to cover themselves, firms and professionals reported much!

NCIS then complained that they were being deluged! [:-))]

All this load of nonsense will achieve is to provide professional bureaucrats yet another opportunity to empire-build at the UK taxpayer's expense.

I can't wait to retire finally.....................................

http://www.icaew.co.uk/library/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_28377#regulations

 

[Sunday Driver]

There are several items of legislation that cover this area, the principal one being the Money Laundering Regulations 2003. 

These set the basic legal framework for countering money laundering.  Operational guidelines were formulated by the Joint Money Laundering Steering Group (JMLSG) so that the relevent institutions could be assured of complying with the statutory requirements concerning due diligence in confirming customer identity, monitoring and identifying suspicious transactions, record keeping and staff training.

The UK approach in developing the guidelines was to take a risk based view rather than just implement a 'tick the box' formula.  This view is re-emphasised in the latest [url=http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/E/D/moneylaundering310706.pdf]HM Treasury consultation document[/url] concerning the proposed implimentation of the EU Third Directive on Money Laundering.

The consultation document provides an comprehensive insight into the current procedures as well as the proposed changes.

 

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Gluestick"]You must be really bored, Ernie, mate! or very much in need of a seriously good headache![/quote]Neither but, yea, I am sorry I asked [:'(]

[quote user="Gluestick"]I can't wait to retire finally.................[/quote]Amen to that....................!

I'm currently in the offshore industry and hardly a day goes by without some new rule or regulation coming out, it fair does your head in and has become a major  disincentive to getting anything done because of the mountain of paperwork even the simplest of tasks generates. But that's a whole different topic and for another day, maybe I'll start a blog............[:D] 

[Gluestick]

I quite agree.

Having been involved in responding to various new initiatives for over 15 years, which include audit de-regualation; small company's law review; competition in the professions (OFT); money laundering; proceeds of crime act; keep on going.

And the problem is that once they realise you can string two words together, you get lumbered!

Compliance is now the big issues for professional practitioners: as well as a host of people in Financial Services.

However, having been involved since the original FSA in 1986 and as a contributor to such things as AIM  (thanks to a "Friend"!), I can honestly say that I don't believe the public are either better served or better protected, really.

Anymore than I believe courts have been particularly successful in sequestrating assets from proven malfeasors. But then the Serious Fraud Office has been conspicuous by its almost total failures!

What all this welter of legislation has achieved, is to saddle the White Hats with yet another series of oncosts (which have to passed on to their client base): and provide jurisprudence with another set of opportunities to prosecute and sanction the good guys; rather than chase the bad guys!

The good guys, of course, are easier to find: and far easier to fine.

 

[mascamps.com]

It's very simple in principle. Anyone in any European country is legally permitted to open an account in any other European country.

However, in practice, you'll find that it's not so easy as that because of the various money laundering regulations these days a lot of banks just won't do it.

Forget Internet banks. Smile, Cahoot and FirstDirect will not allow you to open an account with a non-UK address. However, Smile and FirstDirect will let you change your address to an overseas one if you've already got an account with them whilst you were in the UK.

The simplest is the Co-Operative in Guernsey which will allow any British citizen to open an account no matter where they live. They require a copy of your passport plus proof of address. If you want an overdraft, they might want proof of income I suppose but if you're just looking for an account to do some UK transactions, then you'll not need that. In contrast to the nonsense spoken about earlier about offshore banks, they don't have any charges that you wouldn't expect (ie no transaction charges, no account maintenance charges but they do charge for international transactions) and they operate pretty much as a standard Co-Op bank branch. One side-effect of this is that I gather that you can open other onshore Co-Op accounts once you've opened an offshore one with them (under the existing customer rules).

More upmarket are AbbeyInternational (Abbey National's offshore outfit) and Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander which both require £5000 to open an account (you need to maintain that to avoid charges). They pay a bit more interest than the Co-Op but if you did want a UK savings account, there are better solutions.

Despite what their website says, Citibank UK will open an account for you too. It's quite handy in that you can deposit French cheques with no encashment charges (takes about a week to clear, 2% foreign exchange charge). Open their Access Account which is free, then open a Euro deposit account if you're planning on doing this.

In principle, you could open accounts with Barclays, HSBC, LloydsTSB and Bank of Scotland too (along with any UK "bank", not "building society") but you'd probably need to get in touch with a reasonably large branch to be sure of finding someone who would know what they needed to do. Of those, HSBC is probably the simplest in that if you needed any documents certified you could pop into an HSBC branch in France to do it (I've done that myself in the past).

A copy of your passport (certified in some cases) plus proof of address (EDF/France Telecom bill) is required for all the above. For a current account, you might need proof of income too but without that you could still get the account but would end up with a Solo or Visa Electron card rather than a Maestro or Visa Debit one and, of course, wouldn't get an overdraft.

Incidently, if you've any kids don't forget to open at least one UK account for them before they hit 16. It's a doddle before that but might be hard enough afterwards if they'd been living in France for years and years.

Finally, for those who've not burnt their boats it's useful to change the address of at least one credit card to that of a friend or family member in the UK before you leave. This has the effect of moving your credit history to the new address and will let you apply for bank accounts, credit cards and even mortgages later on.

 

Arnold

 

[johndalton36]

Try Cater Allen Private Bank www.caterallen.co.uk.

Efficient, UK call centre with human staff, accounts in Euro and US$ as well as sterling, photocopy passport or drivers licence plus a utility bill for proof of address - none of this faffing about with apostles or certification of documents.