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Compensation if buyers decide not to buy your house ...


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Yes, you're right baypond ... not sure what proportion the Notaire makes from it but you rarely see a poor Notaire  ...

Thanks for the congrats though, I'm just happy I don't wake up each morning thinking of the 'buyers' anymore !    And some justice was done in the end.

Right, off to dog-sit ... my new venture since it looks like I may be here for a while yet .... if you know of anyone looking for a house/pet sitter, please send them my way !

Thanks again.

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Have I got this right.

 

You put house up for sale, and someone agrees to buy for a particular price.

A compris de vente is drawn up by a notaire , a 10% deposit is paid by the purchasers to the notaire and you and the purchaser both sign the contract.

A date is agreed for the final signing of the acte de vente but then the purchasers ask for the final signing date to be extended. You agree to this.

They then at some point before the final signing of the act (I think one month is mentioned) the purchesers write to the notaire stating that they wish to withdraw from the sale citing reasons which perhaps include the removal of the cooker which was meant to be included (according to them)

You then appear ,at that point ie a month before the act is due to be signed , think that the notaire should have handed over the 10% deposit to you. 

The notaire ,on the other hand tells you that the purchasers may in fact change their mind and buy your house, turning up on the day of the signing.

He advises you to continue with having the electricity cut off etcetc because if they do not proceed with the sale they could use that as an excuse for not signing.

Have I got this correct so far ?

At this point in time do you start this topic on this forum?

Up until now you have suffered no loss according to law.

You will only suffer loss when the contract agreed between you and the purchaser is not completed

Therefore it is only when the purchaser fails to sign the final act and fails to pay over the sum due that they are in breach of contract , not a month before a week before or a day before.

They would also have the right to state that you had not fulfilled  your part of the contract so were pulling out (could possible cite any number of reasons) , and gone to court to have their deposit returned.

So all in all the notaire and the advocats were quite correct in their advice to you.in my opinion.

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Hi ... you've got it right up to the fact that I started this topic on this forum AFTER the day of the final signing.  When the buyer neither turned up or replied to the email the day before the said date and we have now agreed an out of court settlement.

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[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Have I got this right.

 

You put house up for sale, and someone agrees to buy for a particular price.

A compris de vente is drawn up by a notaire , a 10% deposit is paid by the purchasers to the notaire and you and the purchaser both sign the contract.

A date is agreed for the final signing of the acte de vente but then the purchasers ask for the final signing date to be extended. You agree to this.

They then at some point before the final signing of the act (I think one month is mentioned) the purchesers write to the notaire stating that they wish to withdraw from the sale citing reasons which perhaps include the removal of the cooker which was meant to be included (according to them)

You then appear ,at that point ie a month before the act is due to be signed , think that the notaire should have handed over the 10% deposit to you. 

The notaire ,on the other hand tells you that the purchasers may in fact change their mind and buy your house, turning up on the day of the signing.

He advises you to continue with having the electricity cut off etcetc because if they do not proceed with the sale they could use that as an excuse for not signing.

Have I got this correct so far ?

Up until now you have suffered no loss according to law.

You will only suffer loss when the contract agreed between you and the purchaser is not completed

Therefore it is only when the purchaser fails to sign the final act and fails to pay over the sum due that they are in breach of contract , not a month before a week before or a day before.

They would also have the right to state that you had not fulfilled  your part of the contract so were pulling out (could possible cite any number of reasons) , and gone to court to have their deposit returned.

So all in all the notaire and the advocats were quite correct in their advice to you.in my opinion.

[/quote]

 

I have now quoted myself, deleting the reference as to when you started this post.

You started this post on 19th April the day after the purchasers were due to sign  and this is now 1st May.

But I am correct that you wanted the 10% before the final acte date ?

I have explained why at that point they were not in breach of contract.

Seems pretty quick to me to get your compensation of 9% , in less than 2 weeks.

 

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Hi Boiling a frog .... there seems to be some misunderstanding - or at least a lot of misunderstanding !  I'll go through your points ...

I started this post on 19 April but this was not the day after the purchasers were due to sign.   We were due to sign the 28th Feb - after having signed the compromis the end of September.  I agreed to a 5 month delay as they wanted to transfer the money over in two separate years (for tax reasons). 

No, I didn't want the 10% before the final date.  I was however surprised that even though they had sent a recorded delivery letter to say they were pulling out and were not going to purchase the property any more, I still had to go ahead and do the work on the electricity.  I explained to the Notaire that I would have to then pay for it to be put back on since I had family coming over (who originally intended to be staying in the house I was going to purchase - the same day as I was signing the sale of this one) but this made no difference.  They could have used this to say I was in breach of contract - again, even though they had originally put in writing they were pulling out.   Therefore, I carried on with the work as if they were still going to purchase it.  I also had to have the elec survey done for the house as this came into force in 2009, plus the termites one redone as it would have been almost 6 months from the date I originally had it done - for the compromis.

They were not - officially - in breach of contract until after the 28 Feb.  That we agree on.

I received an out of court settlement from them approx 2 weeks ago. 

Hope this now makes sense ? 

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Ok Compromis signed at end of Sept 2008?

Normally there is an approx 3 month delay between signing of compromis and final act de vente.

In your case you agree to a signing on 28th Feb  about 5 months

At some point before that date (approx one month) the purchaser intimates they no no longer wish to purchase.

The notaire quite rightly states that they have until 28th Feb before you have suffered a loss.

They do not sign on 28th Feb so are in alleged breach of contract.

But the notaire has a duty to both parties to ensure that any deposit paid is handed over to the rightfull person

The purchaser is entitled to take a court action out to reclaim his deposit if they feel that the contract has not been adhered to

A common legal principal.

I suspect that in the weeks between the 28th Feb and the middle of April (approx 6 weeks)  the notaire ,who has a duty to return the deposit to the rightfull owner) has been in close contact with the purchaser to establish if they were going to take the matter further.

There may even be a set time limit for them(the purchasers)  to institute legal proceedings or to intimate that they will not take legal proceedings. There must be safegaurds in place to protect all parties.

I know it is difficult but put yourself in the shoes of a purchaser.

You hand over your 10% deposit but before the final signing you decide not to go ahead with the purchase for a reason that you believe is justifiable. . You tell the notaire that you are not going ahead with the purchase.You do not sign on the appointed day and the notaire hands over your deposit to the owners that day.You as the purchaser now have to take a court case out to get your money back.

 

I suspect in these circumstances you would be rather angry with the notaire  

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Sorry Boiling a frog .. but I have to disagree.  

Their intial reason for pulling out was due to the cooker not being included.  The fact that it had never been discussed, and they lied and said that on three separate occasions I had agreed that it was included, made me out to be the liar. 

They were told by the Notaire that as it was a freestanding cooker (ie not built in) and had not been mentioned at the compromis, it was not included, so they would lose their deposit if they withdrew.  They said they were withdrawing due to the economic climate and were informed that they would still lose their deposit.

As requested by the Notaire, they sent a recorded letter to the Notaire mid January to say they were withdrawing, but mentioned they wanted the 10% deposit returned since I hadn't completed the works agreed (separating the elec and water between the two houses I have for sale).  The Notaire told them I had until the 28 Feb to do the works.

On ther 26th Feb, the Notaire received an email from them to say they were over from the US and had driven past the property and the work 'appeared to be a long way off being completed' so wanted the deposit returned.   I had in fact asked the waterboard not to cement over the pavement for a week so that the pipe was visible for inspection. 

They also said I'd lied by saying the property was connected to the village drainage system (and it is) but that in an email to them back in October when I talked about separating the water between the two houses, I had said that the water 'went down the road'.  Obviously I meant in a pipe under the road  and not raw sewage floating down the road !! - and why they didn't think to question this at the time is another thing.  Despite the Notaire telling them the village is on mains drainage, they demanded a letter from the Maire.  They also said they'd never seen the invoices for the elecs and water work (although they knew the Notaire had copies) or the paperwork proving I'd officially had the two properties separated by the Geometre (again, although they knew the Notaire had copies).

So the day before the signing, I went to the Notaire with a letter from the Maire to verify the waters went into the village drainage system.  The 'buyers' were offered to come to the property to inspect the works on the 27th, and the invoices for the work, and the Geometre paperwork.   They neither came round to my house, turned up for the meeting on the 28th and, even more rudely, bothered to reply to the Notaire.

We did not hear from them again until a few days after the date of the signing, when they again said they wanted the deposit returned and that they felt that the Notaire had been biased towards me, and that the compromis was badly written. 

So no, sorry - in these circumstances I cannot put myself in their shoes.  I consider myself to be an honourable person (and hold my hands up to my faults) but I feel they acted dishonourably, made me out to be a liar with their lies and then tried everything to wear me down by throwing as much 'rubbish' at me as possible.   They did not for one minute think they had a justifiable reason ... they were just trying desperately to get their deposit back. 

 

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