contributions sociales

[squidge]

hi all

really quick stupid question.......

i filled out our first tax return earlier this year and declared on it my only income of uk savings interest. i also popped on the form that we are currently covered by an e106.

a month ago or so, received the income tax bill back of zero, as savings interest income was obviously below the tax threshold.

today received a contributions sociales bill for around 300 euros. is this right? in one of those french living books i have it says that those with a low income are exempt from social contribution payments......and being covered by an e106 still.........

sorry if this is a silly question...

thanks!

squidge x

[giantpanda]

Hi!

There are hardly exemptions.

You pay basically the CGS ( Contribution Sociale Genéralisée ) - i.e; 3 taxes ( in some cases with E106 or E121 only 2, which totalise 11% ( for earnings 2009, 12.1%) on so called unearned income.

But that does not mean that the French do not pay them on salaries  ( but foreignors will not pay it on their foreign salaries or pensions , but on the private pensions  ) and pensions - these then are paid ( at a lowever rate ) at source.

They only do not collect it when the sum is not worth collecting. ( Could be something like Euro 36).

Yours,

giantpanda

[Will]

Maybe at this time of year all France forums should have a big sticky posting to say that these 'contributions sociales' are not, as such, a contribution to the French health and social security system which, for most of those who question them, are covered under the E106 form.

They are, as GP indicates, a levy (a sort of additional income tax) that is imposed on all income, particularly 'unearned' income, for all residents, with virtually no lower limit or personal allowance.

The confusion arises mainly because of the name 'social contributions'. These comprise three elements, CSG, CRDS and PS - are imposed to both try and fill the black hole left through overspending on the health service and to build up a fund to protect against future overspending. France imposes them on all income; the fact that not all of the elements are charged on non-French pensions is only because a European ruling stopped that.

[krusty]

Squidge your bill does seem high to me .My tax bill was 62e and the CS bill is 99e.

[Benjamin]

squidge is talking of UK savings interest here, nothing to do with pensions or anything else.

Will correctly points out that in the archaic French tax system this is another tax by another name.

On UK savings interest you will pay 11% in CSG. Plain. Simple.

[BJSLIV]

[quote user="krusty"]Squidge your bill does seem high to me .My tax bill was 62e and the CS bill is 99e.[/quote]

Presumably if Squidge's sole income is his savings, then he has declared a higher level of savings income than you....perhaps something in the region of 2750Euros?

[R&R]

My CS demand does not take into account that tax on the savings interest was taken out at source in UK.  Is this a mistake on the local tax office or mine ...anybody?  Also,  I have noticed that the interest on my assurance vie is not exempt from social charges so is not, in effect, tax free as promised (given certain conditions).  Not much incentive in saving towards old age generally given the low interest rates here. [blink]

[Maricopa]

Hi R&R

I think you need to reclaim the tax paid from HMRC?

I know nothing about Assurance Vies.

[Benjamin]

You pay CS on the gross amount of UK interest received. It is up to you to reclaim any tax paid in the UK if you are non-resident there and fiscally resident in France, which I presume you are.

Someone else will be able to answer your assurance vie question.

[R&R]

Thank you Maricopa and Benjamin.  At least claiming it back in the English language is easier than in French.

[squidge]

thanks all!

yup all sounds about right. it really bugs me that these 'living in france' books offer the wrong information.

squidge x

[Sunday Driver]

'Living in France' books are usually out of date even before they come out of the printers.

Stick with the forum..........[;-)]

 

 

[Jotty]

Or ask the professionals: the French.

I doubt there are any real experts (that is to say fonctionnaires working in the relevant department) on here.

There are however some people who are confident  enough in their opinions to give the impression of being an expert, but have just enough knowledge  to be misleading or even dangerous.

[parsnips]

  Hi Jotty,

            In principle I have to agree with what you say,and whenever I give  an answer I try to refer the questioner to the relevant authority,but there are problems -- not all the fonctionaires ARE competent, I have personal experience of this having helped a number of people gain refunds of french tax caused by elementary errors on the part of the tax offices involved.

            Also ,when competent, they are sometimes unable or unwilling to communicate in english to non french speakers(yes, I know it's up to ex-pats to learn french, but the fact is many, although willing are too old, etc; to learn).

             I always advise people,where appropriate, to go to an ENGLISH-FLUENT Notaire,so they can understand the legal language, but it often helps for them to know in advance exactly what they want to achieve ,and if it is possible, because often the Notaire will give them the "off-the shelf" french arrangement, which may not be at all what they want.

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Jotty"]

There are however some people who are confident  enough in their opinions to give the impression of being an expert, but have just enough knowledge  to be misleading or even dangerous.

[/quote]

What a wonderfully sweeping statement.

Are you now going to police this forum so that you can advise any questioner of the validity or otherwise of any answers that people may offer?

People should always realise that there is no substitute for paying for professional advice but a little pointer in the right direction from others who do have the relevant experience albeit without qualifications is always welcome.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="Jotty"]

There are however some people who are confident  enough in their opinions to give the impression of being an expert, but have just enough knowledge  to be misleading or even dangerous.
[/quote]

What a wonderfully sweeping statement.
Are you now going to police this forum so that you can advise any questioner of the validity or otherwise of any answers that people may offer? [/quote]  In the case of a certain poster Benjamin, I think a phrase along the lines of  "in people greenhouses stones throw shouldn't" applies.

 Didn't stop them offering poor and/or ill informed advice here did it!!  http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1432732/ShowPost.aspx

Yes sometimes people get things wrong on here,  I would be the first one to admit that, but there is always somebody who knows better and politely says so, that is how Forums work.  If we all took the IMHO bigoted views of the OP in this quote to heart, nobody would venture any opinions, quite why she bothers to post or read the posts on here is beyond me. 

PS I know you are a female because you always have the last word[:P]

[Russethouse]

Jotty,

If it was the case that the interpretation of the rules was the same from Calais to St Tropez and Quimper to Lyon I would agree - in real life that isn't the case.

 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Jotty"]Over 60you wouldn't need private Heath Insurance. You would be covered  by a E121.

You would simply join the shameful group of sick British  immigants to France, who during their working life chose  to live in a country which charged very little in terms of tax in exchange  for a sub -standard level of Health care, but who suddenly ( surprise surprise) settle here and start demanding the same level of cover as French people who have paid for  years and years a much higher level of Social Security payments and who unlike the British continue to contribute after retirement.

If anything can make me sick it is the ill-imformed and greedy attitude of those  who come here as simple 'health tourists'

[/quote]

And from another forum....

[quote user="Jotty"]This is of course an example where E121 holders have an unfair advantage over French nationals.
A French pensioner continues to pay Social security charges on Pension income whereas a British pensioner doesn't.
So, leaving out questions of 'Mutuelles' etc which are the same for both the British pensioner gets cover without contributing, whereas the French pensioner continues to pay into the system.

Perhaps Europe should look into this and ask Britain to get into line?

I don't notice much of a campaign on this issue from Brits in France to have the same rights as the French...

[/quote]

Clearly Jotty doesn't have very much respect for the other members of these forums.  ....[8-)]

 

 

[Cat]

You noticed [I]

[Sunday Driver]

Of course.  Unexpected tirades like that, particularly from newcomers, always tend to stick in one's memory.

As do derogatory comments directed towards forum members who spend a lot of their time using their current or former professional skills to make sure the information they provide is wholly accurate......

 

[mint]

The point really is that people give of their experience and knowledge for free and with no expectation of return.

So, sometimes their advice is wrong but then, who is always 100 per cent right?  You could be a fully paid up professional and give wrong advice; why else do professionals need to take out professional indemnity insurance?

Nobody, to my knowledge, insists that they "know it all".  Any advice given is often accompanied by the proviso that you yourself then seek professional independant advice.

Of course, if the professional you pay subsequently proves to have provided the wrong advice, you can always sue him/her.

If, however, you choose to go along with advice provided gratis, well then, you sort out things out for yourself.  Not only that, YOU SHUT UP and do not start blaming others for your own decisions.