Hereford Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Message for Ron Avery: We speak perfectly good French thank you and are quite capable of translating the form into French, but our Maire most certainly does not so why should she accept our translation. It is of course perfectly possible for us to get this form signed, we never thought it was impossible. My complaint is that the wording on the form appears threatening to an 85 year old. He perfectly understands that it is reasonable to ask for proof that he is still alive.If my mother gets a form we will have more difficulty as she is ill and may not be able to get to the Mairie and will certainly find it difficult to sign the form herself.As far as nasty comments such "how does he fill his tax return in" : I am a Chartered accountant and speak French so we have no problem with that at all.Thank you to those who have posted sensible answers.Mrs H.Edit: I should have said that this form comes from: The Pension Service, International Pension Centre so is aimed only at pensioners living abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanb Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 [quote user="Ron Avery"]So there is not one employee of the social security authorities which pay benefits in your country of residence. barrister, solicitor or advocate authorised to practice in the country where the declaration is made, or any other person allowed to administer oaths in the country where the declaration is made. magistrate, justice of the peace or a member of the local police force.in the whole of Normandy who could understand a form in English.[/quote]I'm sure there are plenty, but as a practical matter, how many visits or phone calls would it take to find one? I don't think an 85-year-old should be required to trawl through the whole of Normandy.FWIW I think the blame is shared: the Pension Service need not havebeen so restrictive in its list of qualified signers (how about bankofficials? - most people are customers of a bank). But it's alsoregrettably true that too many people will live for years in a foreigncountry and not make the effort to acquire a working knowledge of the language.Speaking as a former auditor, it's absolutely normal for any agency paying pensions to do some random checking to see whether recipients are still alive. And I think Ernie is right about the large print - in fact, I wish people in all occupations would recognize that small print is not elderly-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 In addition not all elderly abroad live with relatives, I too agree about the bold print, but with a mother in the same age group as the OPs father I appreciate the difficulties.The form isn't only destined for Normandy, Ron, it is just plain common sense to send a form that will be understandable by those you are requesting sign it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I don't see that Rons question "how does he fill his tax return in" was nasty. You have after all only just revealed your language skills.In the UK of course every official form is reproduced in every language imaginable because to not do so would probably be deemed to be infringing the 'ooman rights' of non English speaking immigrants [:'(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 [quote user="Russethouse"] Surely notes in French, German, Spanish and Italian would help the vast majority of Britains who live abroad in Europe ? Grief - you get instructions in umpteen languages if you buy an electric whisk, surely certifying someone is alive is just as important ?[/quote][:D][:D]It already happens. The form 'France Individual' (ex FD5) is issued by HMRC in French for the benefit of the French tax authorities to sign and stamp. The Pension Service themselves even issue E106 'refusal' letters in French so that the CPAMs can understand them.It could be a simple matter for them to include a brief multi language note along the lines of 'I certify that the photo is a true likeness of....' Taking up allanb's point, as far as the list of approved signatories is concerned, surely the most obvious omission is the mairie. Everyone of of us has one and they are an official body...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Perhaps the honorary consul in Nantes might be of some use to those in Brittany? Honorary Consul, NantesMission: Honorary Consul, NantesNational Day: 14 July Contact Details: Address: BP 2202644020 NANTESTelephone: (33) 2 51 72 72 60Facsimile: (33) 2 40 47 36 92Office Hours: GMT:Mon-Fri: 0700-1015 and 1200-1500 Local Time:Mon-Fri: 0800-1115 and 1300-1600They can also be found in Lorient and St. Malo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I think the language skills of the recipient of the form are irrelevant - it's the french official who is being asked to sign. I certainly wouldn't sign an official document in another language without a certified translation. As an aside, it's interesting that the UK can spend a fortune on the translation of documents, leaflets (and even road signs in some cases) into Urdu, Polish etc for immigrants living in the UK but can't provide translations of documents for British citizens living abroad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrouge Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hi I agree that forms should be available certainly in the main European languages as a starting point! at least! I had a form in Normandie and Notaire said no thank you my Doctor said maybe the Vet said no thank you the Roman Catholic priest said you are not one of us! It was a nightmare.Just as an aside and this has a very important standing. Once let us say I set up a Quasi legal NHS complaint body within the UK (for the responsible Govt/body) and where I thought we as a organisation had covered lots of likely issues that may have occured. As a lawyer I looked at the law and as I say we thought we were on the side of the good and the great.Not so. We had a death through natural causes in one of our hospitals and the nurses did what they have to do after the death but here it was a Muslim. I do not wish to go into details but the laying out of Muslims is nothing like what we are used to in the UK but equally we have to respect their culture and wishes.There was a complaint which was upheld by an Independent Review Body and all that was the called for was notices in the appropriate places in the hospitals and a reminder to the Trusts.In such areas I do believe as a multi cultural society and when a death is a death we should do all we can to help those who are suffering.We tend to provide be it in court or whatever support for those who do not have command of English I think we should be able to do likewise for those of us who have decided to live be it in France or Spain or wherever. It is unfair to expect our local Maire to just sign a document for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 If the list of people authorised to sign was more like the passport one, or the Local Government pension form I referred to before, it would be easier to find a fellow Brit to sign.After all there are plenty of professional people in retirement in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 [quote user="NormanH"]If the list of people authorised to sign was more like the passport one, or the Local Government pension form I referred to before, it would be easier to find a fellow Brit to sign.After all there are plenty of professional people in retirement in France.[/quote]That reminded me that in my earlier post I forgot the signing requirements. It simply required an adult resident who was contactable and who was not a member of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Surely that is what the consul if for, signing and the like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 But as someone already pointed out - not everyone lives near to a British Consulate office. My husband lost his passport while in France once and it was a six hour round trip to the nearest office. He was shattered by the time he got back...and he's 56 not 86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Exactly. Unfortunately the consul does not make home visits, and the nearest one to where I live is also a 3-hour drive away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Yes that fine Ron, but you are still a *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 [quote user="mooky"]Yes that fine Ron, but you are still a ***[/quote]What Chief Inspector ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I would like to apologise for being rude to Ron on the forum. I had a fit of "forum rage". It is not usually in my nature to be so rude, and in future I will keep my angry thoughts to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Very civilised of you Mooky, if only others could be similarly contrite after repeated bouts of forum rudeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I agree - and sneaky editing doesn't wash with me - [Www]You know who you are [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Three stars? Wow Mooky thanks for that.[:P] Yes, very civilised of you to admit rage and human of course, I get it when I read many posts from self appointed Forum monitors[Www].However, I now hold you in higher esteem than many of the mods on here, except, Quillan and Hoddy, and Clair and Cat of course, but higher than "will have the last word" RH[:D] [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 quote from Ron from Saturday evening " R.H your Royal Highness"You old turn-coat, you . [:)] Better watch your head - oh, and your neck [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 [quote user="Cat"]Very civilised of you Mooky, if only others could be similarly contrite after repeated bouts of forum rudeness. [/quote]Have you suggested that to Ron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Well: I telephoned Newcastle this morning and was assured by "Steve" that my Dad's local Maire would be fine for the certification of the form. Steve expressed surprise at the idea that said Maire would not accept my translation - he could see no problem with that!Anyway, I shall do the translation and give it to Dad to go to his Mairie on Friday (very small village so only open one afternoon), together with a note explaining what needs to be done. Steve also thought someone from a bank would do as they would have a rubber stamp (this latter seems crucial..).Thank you to all who have commented. I withdraw the remark about a "nasty" comment from Ron (and apologise). I think a better word would have been irrelevant, as we were discussing a UK form not a French tax form. Off to Germany ourselves on Friday to see grandchildren so will not post until next week if we have a problem!Mrs H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 An English speaking notaire near you can be found by using this link:http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/annuaire.nsf/F_RN_RECH_PUB?OpenForm&comLangue=FR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Not knowing what a *** it's extremely difficult to know whether Ron is one or not [6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 [quote user="ErnieY"]Not knowing what a *** it's extremely difficult to know whether Ron is one or not [6][/quote]try an anagram of an electrical term (four letters)...............[:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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