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It's not looking good for 2009


Benjamin
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[quote user="Scooby"]

I was always brought up to take personal responsibility for myself and my family.

[/quote]

[quote user="JMB"] 

People have to

learn self reliance and self discipline. There are too many people

relying on the nanny state to get them out of trouble. I have been in

business for a very long time and the one thing I have learned is that

the only person to rely on in times of stress is me.

[/quote]

I hate to tell you two, but you don't, contrary to what you'd have us believe, have the monopoly on self reliance and responsibility. Whether you can accept this or not, its what most of us do in our day to day lives.

Perhaps you should both get together and have a dinner party, what a great evening that would be......................the, I've got more money than you conversation, the laughter at the expense of others, truly a wonderful occasion, and after its over and you've gone your separate ways, you could both pull each other apart with some really snide superiortistist comments.

What fun.....................................[:(]

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I resist commenting where I can now, (the silent majority, 2123 viewers against 75 responses, seem to be thinking likewise) the personal attacks on any level particularly turn me off, just not productive or beneficial to anyone else on the forum. 
I thought the thread was originally a comment about a worldwide situation brought about by a lack of regulation, and at first it seemed there were many positive ways the discussion could have gone, in line with the theme of living in France (finance).
Chances missed by governments, Living the good life recommendations; (chickens or geese?); best price supermarkets; fuel; even maybe, savings accounts where one could earn an interest rate![8-|]
Unfortunately none of these things. . . is anyone really interested in the low point scoring insults (hopefully this is as bad as it gets) or are they waiting for something just a bit above that level? [8-)]

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[quote user="just john "]

I resist commenting where I can now, (the silent majority, 2123 viewers against 75 responses, seem to be thinking likewise) the personal attacks on any level particularly turn me off, just not productive or beneficial to anyone else on the forum. 

I thought the thread was originally a comment about a worldwide situation brought about by a lack of regulation, and at first it seemed there were many positive ways the discussion could have gone, in line with the theme of living in France (finance).

Chances missed by governments, Living the good life recommendations; (chickens or geese?); best price supermarkets; fuel; even maybe, savings accounts where one could earn an interest rate![8-|]

Unfortunately none of these things. . . is anyone really interested in the low point scoring insults (hopefully this is as bad as it gets) or are they waiting for something just a bit above that level? [8-)]

[/quote]

Well said!

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[quote user="Bugsy"]

Its been said by others but you seem to have missed the point that not everyone had highly-paid careers, giving them money to invest etc, indeed I would hazard a guess that the vast majority don't fit into that category.

You are, clearly, from what you have said, very fortunate, but that fact alone does not give you the right to lambast anyone who isn't.

A little bit of compassion goes a long way.

Gary.

[/quote]

Interestingly I probably fall into your 'sympathy' category - having being diagnosed at 17 with an incurable illness and having struggled against the odds to work (eight major surgeries just in the last three years).  This is probably why I'm more cautious - I know first hand life throws sh1t at you.  What I also learned is that it's not the sh1t that's important - it's how you deal with it.  Probably why I have little sympathy with those who expect to be bailed out because they borrowed more than they could afford, housed because they had more kids than they could feed etc.

Interest rates and prices can move dramatically in your home country. Moving to an EU country with a sterling income means that you will have even more variation to factor in.  I naively thought building in a good margin was basic common sense!

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[quote user="just john "]

I resist commenting where I can now, (the silent majority, 2123 viewers against 75 responses, seem to be thinking likewise) the personal attacks on any level particularly turn me off, just not productive or beneficial to anyone else on the forum. 

I thought the thread was originally a comment about a worldwide situation brought about by a lack of regulation, and at first it seemed there were many positive ways the discussion could have gone, in line with the theme of living in France (finance).

Chances missed by governments, Living the good life recommendations; (chickens or geese?); best price supermarkets; fuel; even maybe, savings accounts where one could earn an interest rate![8-|]

Unfortunately none of these things. . . is anyone really interested in the low point scoring insults (hopefully this is as bad as it gets) or are they waiting for something just a bit above that level? [8-)]

[/quote]

Sorry the thread didn't follow the agenda you wanted.

Perhaps an earlier contribution could have given it a steer?

I believe there is already a section on 'Money saving expat'

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No agenda Norm, just looking for clues at the scene of the crime on a boring sun morn,
but OK Norm, you get your point if that's what you want[8-|]

A more positive note might be hang on in there, the pound may be gasping but isn't the Euro living on borrowed oxygen?
Sarcozy is not happy with Airbus on the brink, as he said ''we didn't build the euro to not build aircraft in Europe'',  (Anybody noticed the improvement in Rolls Royce shares [;-)])
what will happen if the hedge funds move out of the Euro? [blink]

see  euros-bitter-sweet-triumph-

or Hague vows no euro for Britain,

or even english-euro-language-joke/ [:-))]

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I have read this thread about four or five times now and seen comment this way and that....The pivotal point seems to be that some think it Laudable in a 'Harry Enfieldesque' fashion to flaunt their good fiscal judgement and pontificate from their own estimation of what the moral high ground looks like.

Others with a degree more humility have sympathised with those currently finding it tough because they dared to dream but didn't contemplate the current economic conditions.

The ability to generate sufficient wealth to weather the storm is indeed fortunate.....less cobblers about 'sweat of my own brow' and a bit more realisation that while some of us are blessed with the wit, circumstance and physical ability to do well does not for one minute entitle us to scoff at those who are not as fortunate.

I try to exercise foresight........imagine my disappointment were I to find my new neighbours were as up themselves as some here appear to be.....and how little I could do about it were it to happen.

One of the people I respect most in this life is an elderly French Lady, I would imagine of peasant stock, she runs her sheep on my garden as I guess her family has done for years, she grows and tends to her vegetables, she cycles to the shop in the next village for her meagre groceries, and till her ancient bedridden mother's recent demise looked after her full time as well. The lady in question always has a smile and banter for my kids and on occasion a small sack of her potatoes appears on our doorstep, this I guess is 'Our rent' for a small outbuilding we let her use for hay. Don't talk to me of wealth...That sack of potatoes is wealth, it is significant for the lady in question as she is paying her way. It is significant to me because I get to appreciate a little of this lady's immense dignity and feel in ever such a small way connected with my surroundings.

Money is only a scoring mechanism in a game, it is not the only means to the end and I have very little respect for those who think (or rather are so lacking in imagination to think ) it is.

We are all dead soon enough it might just be a  better idea to show a little kindness en route.

 

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Well said Big Mac, smuggness is an unbearable quality to be near. I think the more people respect a different point of view to their own the better. The world needs solid safe saver types, but have been very hard hit in recent times and I empathise completly with you, the values you live by have been turned on their head. But it also needs people who fly by the seat of the pants create jobs, do out of the box thinking and take risks and importantly live with the concesquences good or bad, it takes all sorts. In the past when I've built management teams I've always tried to get a cross section of personality types in place and by doing that success follows. The people who will get the most out of 2009 will be the people who deal with the cards that they've been dealt, and some people have a pretty sh1ty hand right now but hoping someone else is going to make it better won't happen. I speak as someone who isn't immune to the credit crunch, we have a retail business and are about to start on a major renovation project in France but the only way we will get through is to cut our cloth accordingly and get on with it.
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One mans (or womans) sh1te equals another mans (or womans) organic fertilizer.

I guess when one is deep in the organic fertilizer last thing they will need is someone telling them it doesn't smell as nice as their M&S 'better cos it's better' humous.

I think the choice I make is to face it with a shovel and a willing back I hope my neighbours think likewise.

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[quote user="Babbles"]Well said Big Mac, smuggness is an unbearable quality to be near. I think the more people respect a different point of view to their own the better. The world needs solid safe saver types, but have been very hard hit in recent times and I empathise completly with you, the values you live by have been turned on their head. But it also needs people who fly by the seat of the pants create jobs, do out of the box thinking and take risks and importantly live with the concesquences good or bad, it takes all sorts. In the past when I've built management teams I've always tried to get a cross section of personality types in place and by doing that success follows. The people who will get the most out of 2009 will be the people who deal with the cards that they've been dealt, and some people have a pretty sh1ty hand right now but hoping someone else is going to make it better won't happen. I speak as someone who isn't immune to the credit crunch, we have a retail business and are about to start on a major renovation project in France but the only way we will get through is to cut our cloth accordingly and get on with it.[/quote]

Hi Babbles, I also build teams and have had a modicum of success...I try to create environments where people are commited to common goals with less focus on me - me - me and more on the agreed objectives. Nowt wrong with risk in my book so long as it is reasonably evaluated and strategies in place (where possible) for things going awry. With risk goes reward, we all as human beings to some degree realise this (Maslow puts it far beter than I) A fundamental desire in the human animal is to feel valued, this can be represented in hard cash but this is actually the lesser of all the rewards. Man (and woman) kind have proven time and again that they are at their best when doing something they believed worthwhile. There are very few statues raised to 'best accountant'. Napoleon is oft quoted as having said the English are a nation of shopkeepers. I would take this as a compliment...the right things presented well repeatedly is what a shopkeeper and strategist are after, doing the right thing the right way at the right time wins wars...sometimes just sometimes it wins friends also. I wish you well with your retail business, in our business we see the current climate as an opportunity to consolidate and expand, to perfect and hone what we do, maintain margin and increase market share. Bon chance!

 

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Years ago when I worked at an employment agency our standard script said - "why are you leaving the job - and the other reason ?"

The first reason was usually money, and the other reason was the "real" reason - usually job satisfaction, or lack of, plus personality clashes etc...
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Thank you Big Mac & Just John for some positive posts. 

The problem with the present crisis is that people need to think & act positively- the financial health of the nation is based on confidence and the belief that we will come out of this- and soon, or soonish.

The BBC especially seems to be stoking the flames of pessimism with its 'news' broadcasts daily listing unemployment, declines in the value of property and the pound.   This exacerbates a difficult situation and causes more problems.

Tegwini

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Sorry, Tegs, got to disagree with you again.

The BBC does not "make" the news, it merely "reflects" what's out there in the real world.

We wouldn't trust it at all (and as it is our trust is not as it used to be) if it comes out with saying all is rosy in the garden, the government has the situation sussed and under control and we all just carry on as normal, would we?

The "facts" such as are in the public domain have to be represented by the media.  Otherwise, we might as well have a state-controlled media that would only broadcast what the bods in control want them to.

I have lived in a country where that is the case (admittedly many years ago) and, believe me, you'd rather know all the nasty bits than just have a partial picture of everything that makes you feel like you live in some surreal Utopia.

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Hi Sweets

It's not difficult to show bias -  you can emphasise one aspect;  ignore other aspects etc ...

Reminds me when I was studying for a post-grad  history degree ( MA) & reading how we get bias in history, & how it is possible to create bias in 'primary sources'.   For example a photographer/writer/archivist etc  ignores something & focuses on something else. In other words only a supreme (God?) being can make unbiased judgement as people usually have some axe to grind.

I have experienced  media bias elsewhere for about 24 years, so I think that I can make a judgement there.  But, we do get it in the UK, and I sometimes wonder if the BBC has some hidden agenda.   And, not just in the news.

I agree with you that the BBC does not 'make' the news, but I have believed for years that it has some really lazy reporters who often get hold of local stories second hand, and make no effort to reflect on what is happening elsewhere.  Parochial in fact, as we hardly get to hear what is happening out of the UK, or even in Europe.   I have seen a well known sports writer reporting ( a house guest in fact) who was not even at the rugby match he was reporting on!    And, it is so repetitive - almost as if nothing is happening elsewhere.  By choice we often watch other news channels.  

Although I never voted for GB or Tony Bliar at least they were elected,  not so the BBC, and presumably most of their jobs are secure since those of us living in the UK are forced to pay the licence fee whether we can afford it or not. 

My point was that you can talk yourself into a recession/depression ...

Regards

Tegwini

 

 

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[quote user="tegwini"]

My point was that you can talk yourself into a recession/depression ...

Regards

Tegwini

[/quote]

conversely, you can talk up the boom times too. It seems to me that there is no escaping the squeeze after people have lived on tick for too long. Someone will have to pay ... and I think it will be rough for a lot of people this year.

Recession and growth are like two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other. It is an inherent part of the world financial system. Who ever controls the money supply calls the shots and recession is very good for those who lend the most money - The biggest banks. It is payback time and it doesn't matter if you are optimistic. If you can't pay your debts, your assets are taken over.

The problem is much more deep rooted. Until we change things fundamentally, and growth is not seen as the ultimate goal, there will be no end to recessions. No matter what is reported in the news.

not an expert analysis but just my tuppence

Danny

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[quote user="tegwini"]

The BBC especially seems to be stokeing the flames of pessism with its 'news' broadcasts daily listing unemployment, declines in the value of property and the pound.   This exacerbates a difficult situation and causes more problems.

[/quote]

I agree tegs - some of the reporting on the banking has been at best distorted at worst straight out incorrect.  The fall of Northern Rock was made much worse (if not precipitated) by the manner in which it was covered in the news.

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I agree with you, Tegs, that the standard of news reporting on the BBC has fallen in recent years and I did say that we no longer respect the BBC to the extent that we used to.

During the last World War, the BBC enjoyed a fantastic reputation for fairness and accuracy; to the extent that people in occupied countries trusted the BBC news bulletins more than they did the output of their own broadcasting organisations.

But, alas, sloppy reporting is now common and the BBC lost a lot of credibility during the time of the WMD and Dr Kelly affair.

You're also right in saying that the BBC is parochial but that's a function of "national" news, don't you think?  After all, generally speaking, people living in the UK are, first and foremost, interested in what's happening in their own countries before turning their attention to events elsewhere in the world.

I do think, however, that the BBC World Service does its job exceptionally well and I regularly hear news from all parts of the world reported in a comprehensible way.  I particularly love the way that they do not assume that other peoples would necessarily know anything about our own "parochial" affairs.  I chuckle when I hear them say something like "Prince Charles, the heir to the British throne..."   After all, why should someone living in, say, the Gambia know who the devil Prince Charles is?

Bias?  Of course, there is always bias in the media and I have written about media bias on this very forum more than once.  What always interests me is the bits they do NOT report and I wonder how and why editors and proprietors wish to keep some things out of the public gaze.  Is there a hidden agenda and, if there is, who or what constitutes this conspiracy of silence?

As for history, it is well known that history is written by the victors.  Also, did not feminists use to point out that "history" is his story rather than her story?

I don't think that I am naive in matters of media bias but I am satisfied that the present credit crunch and its associated matters are well represented by the BBC.  And, in this instance, I don't believe that a different sort of reporting with a different emphasis, as you have suggested, would in any way affect the course of this very scarey and entrenched scenario.

Just my disagreement with you on this occasion, Tegs, and it does not mean that I disrespect your views.

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I had generally accepted that the BBC / broadsheets etc broadly stuck to the facts but with their own political slant - until the news story was about something I knew a lot about and was closely involved in.  It was then I realised how much distortion and misinformation there is - and how little some reporters know and understand about the items they are presenting.  It gives a whole different picture!

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I'm done with this thread but just have to post this little snippet for anyone critisising the media for hyping the problem.

From the mouth of Gorgon Brown himself...........................

GORDON BROWN:

"Well it's a challenging and difficult year and what I'm trying to do in

the next few weeks - as we deal with the fundamental causes of this,

which is the banking system
and it's a global banking system problem -

is to give real help to people, people worried about their jobs".

from the Andrew Marr interview on Sunday.

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