Tried Opening a Bank Account

[mr ploppy]

I tried opening a bank account the other day, but since I don't have a numero fiscale, they would only offer me a non-resident account. I have a couple of questions

1. where do I get a numero fiscale

2. for a non-resident account, they asked for my tax address. What exactly is that?

[AnOther]

Are you French resident ?

You won't get a numero fiscale unless you submit a tax return in France, which you won't if you are not resident.

Your tax address would be address where you pay your tax, presumably UK.

[AnOther]

Incidentally, we opened our French A/C on the same day as we completed on the purchase so were not French resident at that time but had bought our house as a Maison Primary which may have made the difference although I cannot recall now whether the question was actually asked or not. Certainly nothing was mentioned about numero fiscale's or tax addresses.

Maybe try a different bank [:D]

 

 

[woolybanana]

Seems odd, never needed that, change banks.

[WendyG]

I opened a bank account when I agreed to purchase my residence secondaire - I needed the bank account to be able to transfer monies to pay for it!

From memory you need your passport and a utilities bill showing your UK address.

[mr ploppy]

ErnieY, you say you don't get a numero fiscale until you've filed a tax return, but in our case we won't need to file one until May 2010 as I understand it. Don't we get one by registering with someone or other before then?

[AnOther]

wendy: We did our money transfers direct to the Notaire so had no need of a French A/C before that. In actual fact we had overpaid and opened the A/C with the refund cheque from the Notaire !

mr ploppy: I think in theory you can go to the Impots and say "hi, I'm here" but the classic reaction to that seems to be to told to go away and submit a return when due but on the basis that it must be becoming clear now that you don't need it to open an A/C then why bother. If you feel you must have one then if you were here before the end of 2008 then technically you should be filling in a return this year from when you arrived. Even if you weren't, apart from thinking you barking mad, I don't think anybody would know or care if you 'backdated' your arrival into 2008 and submitted a return on that basis [;-)]

 

[mr ploppy]

We arrived in 2009 so we'll not be submitting a tax return until 2010. I also found it kind of strange that the bank wanted a tax id to prove residency. I read elsewhere that residency isn't so much a choice, but determined by facts - in other words, if we live here, and intend continuing to live here, then we're resident, surely. Short of having a tax id 15 months prior to filing our first return, any suggestion how one might prove residency? I agree, trying another bank may not be a bad idea.

[suein56]

[quote user="mr ploppy"]We arrived in 2009 so we'll not be submitting a tax return until 2010.

I also found it kind of strange that the bank wanted a tax id to prove residency. I agree, trying another bank may not be a bad idea.[/quote]

We opened a current account with BPop when we were living in a gite and needed an internet connection but couldn't achieve that without either paying by cheque or having a direct debit - neither of which we could achieve without having a French bank account. We showed passports and UK bank statements and lo and behold a bank account was opened - which could be closed later if we decided not to become French residents...

Sue

[Sunday Driver]

Having sold up in the UK, we lived on a campsite here for twelve weeks whilst our house purchase was being processed.  We visited the local Credit Agricole branch, produced our passports and the account was opened.  The bank manager knew the site owners because they often referred house hunters to him. 

Our first cheque books even showed the campsite addess...[:)]

 

[Judith]

I think some of the banks are getting more bureaucratic, in so far as, hubby wanted to open a savings account recently with a different bank and one wanted all sorts of info he didn't have on him, so he walked out, went to the next (there are 5 or 6 in the high street of the nearest town), and did all he needed with the paper work he had with him.  His argument was if they make it too difficult he doesn't want to know.  So, if they cause problems, move on, and find another.

[mr ploppy]

I read with interest the article on Tax Residency linked to by ErnieY. I'm in the position where I need to decide, or more likely have someone qualified tell me, where I'm tax resident, so that I know where I stand. Any suggestions as to where one would start?

[parsnips]

Hi,

   Those of us who opened accounts years ago may not be aware that things have been tightened up a lot following the EU savings directive. However the only difference with a "Compte étranger " is that you don't have access to the tax free savings accounts like Livret A and LDD, but as they are currently paying only 2.5% and this is likely to go down, it's no great hardship.If you want a reasonable rate on savings open an online life assurance plan (guaranteed euro fund) with a company which takes no entry fee , you should get up to 4.5% , which although taxable, if declared to be taxed with your other income (when you eventually make adeclaration) should get you about 4% net. Look on the internet-I recommend Fortuneo/Symphonis Vie, but there are others.

[parsnips]

[quote user="mr ploppy"]I read with interest the article on Tax Residency linked to by ErnieY. I'm in the position where I need to decide, or more likely have someone qualified tell me, where I'm tax resident, so that I know where I stand. Any suggestions as to where one would start?[/quote]

Hi,

 If you are now living in France ,with your family ,for most of the time then you are probably de facto resident. In order to establish this officially you should contact HMRC non residents dept (see website), and ask for form P85 which you complete giving the date when you left the UK to take up residence in France; the UK taxman will usually treat you as non-resident from that date.

   You should also ask for a double-taxation form (formerly known as FR5), which you should complete and take to your french tax office. You could try to do this now, but if , as others have said they tell you to go away and come back with your first tax declaration next year, then you'll have  to wait. This will mean that for a while you may pay tax in both countries, depending on the type of income, but you will --eventually--be repaid all UK tax wrongly paid.

[NormanH]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Are you French resident ?

You won't get a numero fiscale unless you submit a tax return in France, which you won't if you are not resident.

[/quote]

Surely the numero fiscale is also to be found on the Taxe Fonciers and Taxe d'habitation? .

[Scooby]

We opened an account (with BP) before we purchased our house (so no tdh / tf bills).  We do not live in France nor do we have any intention of moving there.  BP just asked for our passports and a UK utility bill...same documents that are required to open a UK bank account. 

[mr ploppy]

Re the EU Savings Directive.

That's the thing - I could understand if we were trying to open a savings account that they would want to know where we were going to pay tax on the interest, but we were trying to open a non-interesting bearing account, just for day-to-day stuff like our telephone and internet bills.

[Bluebell]

I had a look at the numero fiscale on my bills as I was needing one to open an internet account.  But the NF on the taxe d'habitation bears no relation to the NF on the taxe foncière so I presume those numbers are no use elsewhere.

[Phil & Pat]

The NF on my taxe d'habitation and taxe foncière is exactly the same as used on my avis d'impot sur les revenus.

[Frederick]

Try  Credit  Agricol as S.D. uses......I am with them they certainly never wanted to know about my residency status

all my CA manager wants to talk about is the rugby ....

[Grecian]

Oh dear, more problems on the way I think. Can I assume that if you are not in possession of a numero fiscale, due to not yet having submitted a tax return, or have not received a d'habitation/fonciere bill, if I were to try and open an assurance vie, with another bank other than my own, I will not be able to, due to the fact I am not yet in possession of a numero fiscale? I have an active account with CA, which I had no problems in opening after flashing around an official document from the notaire, on the completion of our house purchase.

 

[RicandJo]

I have never been asked for a fiscale number.  We opened a non resident account when we bought the house.  When we moved here permanently we contacted the bank (LCL) who just wanted a household bill to change the account status.

 

Easy peasy.

[allanb]

I don't think a numéro fiscal can be a requirement for opening an assurance vie contract, because we established one with our bank after being in France for only about a month - long before we had a tax i/d.  However, at that stage the bank already had plenty of evidence that we were resident in France.  Maybe this is what matters. 

For what it's worth, our account was labelled "non-resident" for many months after that.  It didn't seem to make any difference to anything.