Jump to content

Anyone phoned tax office for exchange rate yet?


milkeybar kid
 Share

Recommended Posts

[quote user="allanb"]I don't think this discussion is evidence of a "neo-anal obsession", as ErnieY so charmingly puts it.[/quote]Sorry if you do not appreciate my florid prose allan but with which part do you disagree, is it neo, anal, or obsession [:D]

It does seems to me that a 6 page thread on a topic which crops up every year, one to which I think we all know the technically correct answer, must qualify for at least 2 out of 3 [Www]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 93
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

[quote user="suein56"][quote user="suein56"]
Just for interest sake I will post their reply when it is received.
[/quote]
OK, the reply is in, and - as I expected - they follow the rules and my rate is 1.2067; which is not too bad.

Email received:

Nature de la demande : IR revenus
Objet de la demande : Demande d’information pratique ou rendez-vous
Référence :
Traité par : Jose DA-SILVA, 0297015041, Contrôleur principal, cellule csp

Bonjour Madame

Au 1/1/2008 : une Livre sterling = 1,3636 €
Au 31/12/2008, """"""""""""""""""" = 1,0498 €
Soit un taux moyen de 1,2067. Vous pouvez utiliser ce taux moyen pour la
conversion de vos revenus.
Cordialement                                     
M DA SILVA

Obviously I am getting well known there, as I now rate a 'cordialement' instead of the 'salutations distinguées' I got last year!

Sue [:)]

[/quote]

"amicalement" next year, perhaps?

But watch out when it gets to "salut"!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Ron have followed your postings for some considerable time and have equally welcomed sound advice. Here I think I have to live with myself so whatever the guy tells me to do this afternoon I will do so. He should know better than I.

However looking at your email I am not sure with respect that I agree 100% with the posting. In the UK we received regular monthly income then a small annuity twice yearly then income on a monthly basis for a house which is rented and then annual interest from a BS. 99% of the income is paid gross.

If I declare all of that income here in France and pay tax on it then what is left in bank accounts in the UK has been accounted for and thus to my non-accountants mind every time I withdraw money for day to day living expenses is exactly that and if I were to disclose that as well it would be more than double entry book keeping.

We xfer every month from the UK a set some to pay all of our overheads here such as tax habitation water electricity insurances on the house and cars and the like.

You are surely not saying that as these are the only amounts that are coming into France on a regular basis that these are the only sums I should declare.

The posting in relation to cash withdrawals has unfortunately confused me but that is not unusual!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="allanb"]I don't think this discussion is evidence of a "neo-anal obsession", as ErnieY so charmingly puts it.[/quote]Sorry if you do not appreciate my florid prose allan but with which part do you disagree, is it neo, anal, or obsession...[/quote]I hope you don't know what neo-anal means, Ernie.  It's something I don't even want to read about, never mind being obsessed about it.

But seriously...[quote]

It does seems to me that a 6 page thread on a topic which crops up every year, one to which I think we all know the technically correct answer, must qualify for at least 2 out of 3 [/quote]It does indeed crop up every year, but I don't think there's been another year - at least not recently - in which there was such a dramatic drop in the rate just before the end of the year.

It should be a fairly trivial question.  There are many ways of computing an average rate, but they all give something around 1.25.  If you did exactly what the law requires (I presume this is what you mean by the "technically correct answer") then, assuming your income was roughly evenly spread throughout the year, you would come up with something like that. 

If the tax service, at the national level, simply said "you may, if you wish, use an average rate, and we will accept 1.xxx as an average" - that would settle almost all the questions, provided that the average was a sensible one.

Unfortunately they haven't.  They've given (last time I counted) at least four different rates in writing. Two of them are utter nonsense, apparently calculated by someone mathematically ignorant, and one of them (the famous 1.05) is about 20% lower than a real average.

This is the real problem.  If you offer people the possibility of reducing their taxable income by 20%, the obvious reaction is "This sounds too good to be true, but I don't want to miss the chance: is it reliable? is there a catch? what do I have to do to avoid a problem? "  That's not obsessive: it's common sense.

Hence the 6 pages.        

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DR I only referred you as requested to a thread where various tax issues were discusssed,  its for you to decide which advice to follow.   I really think you need to step back a bit and think what would be the situation were you still in the UK AND that interest on savings was taxable there.  Then all you need to do is declare your income, and from the Q and As in my post above the rate to be applied is quite simple to calculate.  Would you declare money taken out of a current acount that has already been taxed or from a savings account as income?  No of course you wouldn't and the same applies here.

The issue about holes in the wall applies to those who are paid and taxed in the UK like civil servants, police etc, they only have to declare their monthly pensions as income, some do it on an annual basis, some when they choose to take it out of the hole in the wall and then the issue of what rate applies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I now understand Ron. I truly did not understand that process. Indeed I have a retired Senior Police Officer as a very good friend and he builds up his tax paid pension and then deposits it by a UK cheque with CA on his sterling account. But he only xfers it into euros when he is happy with the rate. So I suppose until that happens then he does not have to declare it

However I have enough problems of my own.

rdgs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely the link posted by thornit (page 5) is the definitive answer, isn't it; you use the day rate if practical but are allowed, for simplicity, to average 31/12 with the previous year's 31/12. End of.

The staff quoting 1.04 are quite simply wrong, surely?

I guess, though, anyone who has the 1.04 in writing is justified in using it; after I was given that rate, I specifically asked whether "1.0498 is the rate to use to convert all of my income received in GBP during 2008 to EUR for the 2008 declarion". I have just received her reply: "Vous devez multiplier vos revenus en livres par le taux de 1,049868766. Il s'agit du cours au 31/12/2008 communiqué par la Banque de France."

It's tempting, but I believe she's wrong. E1.20 for me, and I know to use the average of the two 31/12 rates in future years.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Juswundrin"]Surely the link posted by thornit (page 5) is the definitive answer, isn't it; [/quote]

No, it isn't because that document makes no mention of revenue, it clearly states that it applies to expenses incurred abroad and paid out in something other than € and that it applies to those who come under "montant réel" (I forget what the other main régime is) and is therefore somewhat unlikely to apply to any of us, even for expenses.

"Les salariés qui, en application du cinquième alinéa du 3° de l’article 83 du code général des impôts,

optent pour la déduction du montant réel et justifié de leurs frais professionnels, doivent convertir en euros les dépenses qui, le cas échéant, ont été exposées à l’étranger et dont le montant est exprimé dans une monnaie autre que l’euro." [my emphasis]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We went into the tax office this morning as I felt happier about getting it right than doing it online.

The lady didn't seem to have a clue about it.

Last year a lady there wrote down our weekly pensions in sterling, x 52 & then used an exchange rate from somewhere in her desk to convert it.

So i gave this year's lady the same information & she had no idea what rate should be used. I said that I had seen 1.04986 mentioned & she attempted to do the conversion with her calculator ... 5 times! In the end, I suggested we use 1.05 as it was easier, which she did.

If it's wrong, then the tax people will have to let us know, I don't know what else one is supposed to do!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Head Guy here in Fontenay this afternoon was let us say less than helpful especially when I pointed out to him that not all the forms that are needed were sent to me. Indeed 2047 was missing. He then obtained a not very good 2047 and then when we started upon exchange rates he said that he would be personally looking at mine to make sure that I used 1.11. More than happy so to do and he has equally just sent me an email to that effect. How he will ever find out my income is beyond me but please believe me every penny or sous that I earn the guys see it. I do some work in another life for HMG so I try to obey the rules even though there are some in HMG and the Opposition who do not.

C

I really do prefer the deduction at source why should we all be spending an inordinate amount of time on this vexed and vexing question.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="dragonrouge"]The Head Guy here in Fontenay this afternoon was let us say less than helpful ... and then when we started upon exchange rates he said that he would be personally looking at mine to make sure that I used 1.11 [/quote]

It sounds quite helpful to me, Lucky you. [;-)]

Sue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The exchange rate you use could make a big difference to some people on low incomes. It could bring them into the range where they qualify for eg free Tax Hab., and maybe CMU and other benefits. 

And at the upper end a person might avoid falling into the wealth tax bracket.

So it is important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="dragonrouge"]Indeed I have a retired Senior Police Officer as a very good friend and he builds up his tax paid pension and then deposits it by a UK cheque with CA on his sterling account. But he only xfers it into euros when he is happy with the rate. So I suppose until that happens then he does not have to declare it...[/quote]Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's not correct.  The rule about currency conversion, whether it's modified by a tax inspector or not, applies to any income that needs to be converted.  That includes all income originally received in sterling, whether it's taxable in France (like the state retirement pension) or in the UK (like your friend's police pension).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I received this response from the local tax office:-

Traité par : , scoup CALAIS

Bonjour Madame / Monsieur

Madame,monsieur,
Le taux est:0,9525.
Veuillez agréer,madame,monsieur,l'expression demes salutations distinguées.
GERARD BARON
Contrôleur principal des impôts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="sueyh"]

I received this response from the local tax office:-

Traité par : , scoup CALAIS

Bonjour Madame / Monsieur

Madame,monsieur,
Le taux est:0,9525.
Veuillez agréer,madame,monsieur,l'expression demes salutations distinguées.
GERARD BARON
Contrôleur principal des impôts

[/quote]

You intend to use this for what?  Declaring a regular monthly police pension or your end of year annuity? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="dragonrouge"]Indeed I have a retired Senior Police Officer as a very good friend and he builds up his tax paid pension and then deposits it by a UK cheque with CA on his sterling account. But he only xfers it into euros when he is happy with the rate. So I suppose until that happens then he does not have to declare it...[/quote]Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's not correct.  The rule about currency conversion, whether it's modified by a tax inspector or not, applies to any income that needs to be converted.  That includes all income originally received in sterling, whether it's taxable in France (like the state retirement pension) or in the UK (like your friend's police pension).

[/quote]

Allan is correct.  The total income for the year has to be declared (at the appropriate conversion rate) whether transferred or left in a UK bank account.  It is required to calculate the revenue fiscal de reference.  I have a similar pension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

I don't know why this always gets so complicated.....

I submitted an on-line request via the main Impots 'contact us' webpage asking them to confirm what the allowable average exchange rate is for 2008 revenus étrangers.

The reply came back in a hour in the form of an e-mail from the Direction Générale des Finances Publique reiterating the standard daily rate procedure, but confirming that for practical purposes, it is permitted to use an average rate.  For sterling, the approved rate for 2008 is 1,049868766.

Simple request, simple reply, 100% official and binding - now printed out and clipped to my personal tax file.....[;-)]

 

 

[/quote]

Once again Sunday Driver gives us the definitive answer.  I followed his advice and reveived a similar answer.  Now printed off and clipped to my personal tax file.

Many thanks SD.

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would seem that anyone who has been given a higher rate than 1.05 by his local tax inspector - and there seem to be plenty of them, just from reading this forum - could consider doing the same, i.e. asking the Direction Générale directly.  If they get the same response as SD, why not ignore the local inspector and use the 1.05?  The D.G. must be a higher authority, surely.

Especially if the local answer was just given in a phone call or a talk with the receptionist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

By George, they've got it..................[;-)]

 [/quote]

But knowing, as you do, that this is the wrong rate ...

[quote user="allenb"]

Especially if the local answer was just given in a phone call or a talk with the receptionist.[/quote]

No, in a correctly advised email from a large, central Tax office, in a town where the 'tax fraud' centre is based; which my nextdoor-but-one neighbour works for.

I, for one, can't do it; so will stick with the 1.2067 I was advised of.

Sue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sue in 56 said "No, in a correctly advised email from a large, central Tax office, in a town where the 'tax fraud' centre is based; which my nextdoor-but-one neighbour works for.

I, for one, can't do it; so will stick with the 1.2067 I was advised of.

I'm with Sue on this one. If the "office" says that it OK to use that "rate" even though we know its both actually and technically wrong and by doing so makes our declaration that it is a true and valid tax declaration invalid, are we not just doing what many UK MPs have done?  Having in many cases asked what was "acceptable" under the rules and guidelines, they then did as they were "advised", knowing it was acceptable under the rules but morally indefensible in the "court of public opinion".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Ron Avery"]Sue in 56 said "No, in a correctly advised email from a large, central Tax office, in a town where the 'tax fraud' centre is based; which my nextdoor-but-one neighbour works for.

I, for one, can't do it; so will stick with the 1.2067 I was advised of.

I'm with Sue on this one. If the "office" says that it OK to use that "rate" even though we know its both actually and technically wrong and by doing so makes our declaration that it is a true and valid tax declaration invalid, are we not just doing what many UK MPs have done?  Having in many cases asked what was "acceptable" under the rules and guidelines, they then did as they were "advised", knowing it was acceptable under the rules but morally indefensible in the "court of public opinion".

[/quote]

Hi,

      For heaven's sake , if numbers of people have been told by numerous tax offices, in many cases in writing, that the ACCEPTABLE rate is 1.049, why , in the name of sanity, would anybody chose to further deplete their already diminished income by opting for a higher rate that somebody on a forum feels they should use for moral reasons. This to further inflate the obscenely bloated and inefficient french state .

      The only reason you should not use the accepted rate is where you actually KNOW the rate, as where your pension is paid direct to your french account in €.

       By the way there is no "court of public opinion " outside the cheaper tabloid newspapers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...