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Timescale - getting tax back from UK


Nell
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Just need to revive this thread and I beg people to be patient whilst I describe what our position is.  And, PLEASE don't hold back on your opinion/advice.

OH has an annuity that is still being taxed in the UK and this is 20 months since we left.  Have done everything as advised here.

French impôts and contributions sociales all paid up.  Can we get our 0 tax code from the UK?  A resounding "No".

Thanks to Gastines' advice, we emailed, etc.  Have been back to our local tax office who told us the forms had all been sent off to Paris. 

UK tax office claims that they have received nothing (nothing new there then).  OH rang today to say that the forms had been sent but they still insist that the claim has not been "registered".

Stalemate!!!!!!!

So now please advise me further.  Can we send a copy of our avis d'impôts and our Contributions Sociales statement to the UK (as proof that we are French tax resident) and request that they now authorise that the annuity can be paid gross of tax?

I know we still have to address the matter of the rebate.  But, it would be mega helpful if we could at least get the annuity paid gross.

BTW, we had an email reply today to say "Please do not contact us" (which I take to mean by email) because the message goes on to say that the "Office is open between the hours of........." etc.

Fuming?  No, given that ineffectual activity up.  Just turning to drink instead!

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I might be a bit off beam here not having an annuity, but having a 0 tax code in the UK would not necessarily be any help in getting your annuity paid gross, would it? 

My tax code is 0 so my pension fund pays my pension to me gross, but I still get my interest on savings net from the UK.  If your annuity provider does not pay gross to overseas clients surely its a matter of paying the tax in the UK as many of us have to do and then claiming the tax back in France by completing a form or doing a UK tax return?

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sweet17

Check out this DirectGov guide on [url=http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/ContactOrDealWithHMRC/DG_10014956]How to complain to HM Revenue and Customs[/url].

You need to speak in the first instance with the Complaints Manager. Your complaint should be normally resolved within 15 days.

If you are unhappy with his response, you can ask for the responsible director to review your complaint.  In the last resort, you can invoke the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

Note that:

You may be able to claim back reasonable costs that you have incurred as a direct result of mistakes or delay by HMRC, such as:

  • postage

  • phone calls

  • travelling expenses

  • professional fees

  • financial charges

If HMRC mistakes or delays have caused you a lot of worry or distress they may make a small payment to acknowledge and apologise for this. They might also make an additional payment if your complaint was handled badly or they took an unreasonable time to deal with it.

Escalation is your friend - start using the big hammer.............[;-)]

 

 

 

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Just to tell you how I  (the original thread poster) am getting on with this.....

As I said, all relevant forms were sent in August. Phoned end of September and told forms were received Sept 4th. (Oh good at least they have got them!!)

Phoned 2 weeks ago to see where things were up to.. "Sorry Mrs. there is a great backlog blah blah blah..., but I will put your name on a spreadsheet - that tells Nottingham you want your forms processed. They will phone you in the next couple of days". Guess what NO call [:-))]

Phoned again this Monday - same rubbish spouted as last time, but said my name on the spreadsheet this time would be highlighted

Well I got a very apologetic phone call today (They can find OH's forms, but not mine) They tell me, they do have my forms, just can't place them amidst the chaos at the minute. Anyway, after giving them some details over the phone I am told they will credit my bank account in the next few days with my overpaid tax and will inform my tax office to change my tax code so that tax will not be taken from my pension. So I await payment soon I hope, hope, hope....

The number I am calling is 0151 210 2222. This is a Liverpool number, not a Nottingham number. I think if you are getting a bit of a runaround you should ask to have your name put on the spreadsheet so that someone from Nottingham can call you. Try asking for a food parcel too [:D][Www][:D]

Good luck

 

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Ron, the annuity company do not say that they can't pay gross, only that they cannot do it without the necessary authorisation from the IR.

SD, thank you for that link.  You've come up with the goods, as usual.  Will write straightaway, quoting email ref which tells us "do not contact us..."

Will outline the whole kerfuffle, with dates, etc.

Nell, good luck with your claim and thank you for the phone number.  Will be needing more than food parcels; hit as we are by exchange rate, no tax rebate and annuity still deducted  net![:-))]

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Just for clarity, that Liverpool number is Bootle which is the tax office that handles our affairs.  The administrative centre for non residents that handles the Forms from Paris and collects ionformation and instructs Bootle and your Annuity payer of your code and status is in Nottingham.  In the case of delayed administration of your case they should be your first point of call.  However as I have said many times its often your old employer or your old tax office that causes the delays by not passing on requested information to Nottingham and as self assesment paper returns are nopw being dealt with,  you may find yourself facing a further delay if it is your local tax offices causing the problem.  In the past I have found Nottingham to be nothing but helpful, and Bootle too, but that was five years ago now!!
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Following on from Ron's point, the correct procedure is for you to notify your usual tax office via form P85 before you actually move to France.  They then close off your local tax file and transfer it to the Centre for Non-Residents at Nottingham.  That means the CNR already have your file well in advance of them receiving the Paris forms.

Perhaps some of the delays may be due to people not having done things correctly, so that the CNR have to start from scratch and notify the local tax office, then wait for the files to be sent through before they can process the claims.....

 

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]  In the past I have found Nottingham to be nothing but helpful, and Bootle too, but that was five years ago now!![/quote]

  Hi,

     Since Gordon Brown forced  the Inland Revenue and HM customs to merge a couple of years back, against massive opposition from the personnel of the two services , there has been a marked deterioration in the service,due, the organisation says, to lack of resources, and also ,no doubt to a  loss of goodwill between the workers and the ministers.

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Hopefully things will improve as according to the News and Telegraph,haven't read the Mail yet, there are tens of thousands more pen pushers being employed by the Government. I seem to remember HIM saying he intended to get rid of 120000. Bit like the 10% tax fiasco,stop an operation in use and then employ thousands more to sort the mess out.

Regards.

 

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Well, we finally had cheques from the Inland Revenue in respect of tax refunds for 2006/7, and 2007/8 this week, thank goodness - it's been a long wait.  Now we have to wait for my pension provider to change my tax code, so that I can be reimbursed for this year's tax.  This, apparently, could take some time according to Nottingham.  A step in the right direction, though.

For those still waiting, Nottingham have said that they are dealing with correspondence up to 31st October at the moment.

Chris

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 I had the same problem, but all you can do is wait. Filled the self assessment forms in to try and claim tax back on the tax allowance you are allowed. Completed in April...they lost them...filled them in again in June,they finally registered them in August. Got the tax back in Februrary.

They said it was because of new procedures and no-one knew what they were doing. Apparently, there are going to be more new procedures to try and fix the other new procedures, so expect the same mess this coming year. I found phoning and writing letters a waste of time, you just have to bite your tongue and wait.

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Thanks for all your input, guys (and girls!), especially to Ron and SD.

Actually, we did everything in the correct order.  Our files are indeed with Nottingham.

Despite what BAF has said, I think we WILL contact Nottingham & Bootle because at least they will have to log the calls and it might (just might) impress upon them the urgency for some people and, whilst they might not care a monkey's, it could prick someone's conscience (I hope).

Will also log a complaint as per SD's advice because I suspect that these people will have "targets" to meet as regards standard of service, so if they can't produce a result, it'll be a black mark against them.

Worth causing a bit of a stir, I think.  After all, I do have lots of time in France (though I would prefer not to use it in the way I have just described!)

 

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Nell - thankyou for starting this thread, as it has reminded me that I haven't heard anything from the IR since I sent off a form ?P85 over a year ago. I've just rung them again and the next step is to complete a form FD5 and take it to the french tax office.

Perhaps I will get a refund while I am still "here in France", before I go off to a better place. We've been here nearly 7 years already. [blink]

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What a lot of info!! Great stuff.

For those still waiting, Nottingham have said that they are dealing with correspondence up to 31st October at the moment.

This is good news as my forms were received on September 10th and I had an e-mail from Nottingham on 16th October. Sooooooo I could be one of the lucky ones who gets there longed-for-dosh sooner than later[:D]. Certainly need it for my new windows (lets hope LaPeyre have a January sale!!).

tuppence

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They must have a huge storage space somewhere. Our file alone must be too heavy to lift. My wife has just returned the sixth form ,posted to our French home asking when she is leaving UK and funnily enough one of the questions is "Why". Having been tax resident here for 6 years and sent all the required forms back including the H.d.I. stamped form umpteen times AND receiving interest gross. Left hand and right hand comes to mind.

Having a B.I.L. who once worked for the In.Rev, I wonder what the staff turnover rate is and if it is connected to the inefficiency of the departments.

Recently in the Bournemouth paper it had an article on the amount of sickies the staff at the Town Hall had in one year.The total amounted to the hours of employing 400 more staff.  If I come back for another life I don't think I'll go down the self-employed road next time.

Regards.

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When I had a long wait for my tax refund, I used the following contact details to email them.   I was surprised to have a quick reply explaining that my forms had arrived a few months ago but were queueing.

At least you can chase it up again easily by replying to theirs.

http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/hmrc/contactus/search.ladv?sr=0&as=1&cs=ISO-8859-1&sc=hmrc&sf=&sm=0&nh=50&ha=34&tx0=370342&fl0=__dsid:&tx1=2020&raction=view

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[quote user="Patf"]

Nell - thankyou for starting this thread, as it has reminded me that I haven't heard anything from the IR since I sent off a form ?P85 over a year ago. I've just rung them again and the next step is to complete a form FD5 and take it to the french tax office.

Perhaps I will get a refund while I am still "here in France", before I go off to a better place. We've been here nearly 7 years already. [blink]

[/quote]

I think you have your wires totally crossed.  If you completed a P85 a year ago you were six years too late, its supposed to be completed WHEN or just after you leave the UK not six years after. 

Also, why you should be filling in a FD5 at this stage of the year is also a mystery,  there are far easier ways of claiming back tax paid in the UK than doing that, presuming that the UK tax people actually know that you live in France.  Do a search its all there and need not involve any French tax office.

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Ron - it was only last year that the french Impots told me I should pay tax on my govt. pension in France. Before that they were accepting my tax declarations  with figures from taxing it in the UK, together with my local govt. pension. 
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That makes more sense, but if you are known to be a tax resident in France already why complete a P85 now?  Did you not do this anyway when you left the UK?  If you did then you can use an R 43 to claim back any tax paid in the UK on interest, the OAP or private pensions. See this link http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/r43-2007-notes.pdf

To claim back tax paid in the UK on income that that has been declared in France, (you can't of course, have it back if you have not declared it in France), it looks like you can use an R 43.  However, if you have not told the UK that you have moved to France by way of a P 85 then as SD says you will have to follow the FD 5 route for the first year at least.

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Thought I'd report back in case anyone is interested.

OH wanted to give the phone one last shot before going down the Complaints Procedure route or indeed back to see Dragon Lady at the Hôtel des Impôts.  Can't say I blame him as I wouldn't particularly have liked to have to verrify with said lady the "exact date" that she sent off our documents to Paris for forwarding to the UK.

Anyway, no joy Nottingham, no joy Bootle (absolutely as expected) but then he asked the last person he spoke to to write him a letter so that he could take it to our local tax office to show them that he had indeed been trying to help himself and that the UK had said they definitely did not have his form.

Letter came today, asking him to send a "certified" copy of the Dual Taxation form.  We'd kept a photocopy of the original so it was the work of a moment to photocopy a copy of the copy and also a copy of the avis d'impôt as well as a copy of the Contributions Sociales demand (phew, all them copies).

So now we await events.  At least we now have a named person to write to at the UK end and I believe they do have to take some action once you've put the ball in their court.

Sorry if I've bored someone to tears with all this.  It's just that I feel bound to share our experience in case it's of help to others.  And it's a way of saying thank you to SD et al who've given us so many interesting tips.   

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This is undoubtedly a tedious and unreliable process, Sweets!  In our case, we never went through the Paris stage as our "lady of the Impots" simply signed our form and gave it back to us and we sent it direct to the UK ourselves, on her instruction.  It got processed (albeit slowly - in about 6 months) and we got all our rebates and tax code changes, no probs.  The system is batty; why Paris has to be involved at all remains an utter mystery to me.  On the other hand, if it keeps somebody in a job...
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Being Sunday Driver, I naturally followed the correct procedure to the letter and my FD5 was processed within four weeks and I had refund cheques coming out of my ears.

Mind you, this was some time ago when they were less busy.....[:P] 

- but there again, it could have been a case of "Hurry up, it's Sunday Driver's form".....[:-))][:-))]

 

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