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Bankruptcy....


Nutty Nora
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Hi

My husband and I declared ourselves bankrupt following the collapse of our business and the loss of everything associated with it... (house, cars, credit, sanity)

We are looking for a fresh start hopefully in France but wonder how the bankruptcy will affect us there?

We will have the ability to support ourselves as my husband will be working (UK employer with base in France) and earning a very decent wage.

We are keen to get back onto the property ladder and wonder are we to be scrutinised and penalised in France as we are in UK?

We are very decent law-abiding people with 3 children...we just want to start afresh with out the stigma of feeling like criminals because we lost our business

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If you are both undischarged bankrupts in the UK, that information would be readily obtainable by banks and other credit agencies in France and indeed anywhere else, as it is in the public domaine. In addition, I seem to recall reading recently that creditors are now able to pursue debts and civil judgements given by one EU member state in another much more easily.

Although this might surprise you, the bankruptcy laws in the UK are far less draconian than many other countries and in fact are criticised by some as having become too lenient.

You need to take professional advice both in the UK and France before you move, to understand the legal implications, as unfortunately a move to France will not enable you to escape your past credit problems if they are still outstanding.
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Thanks for the reply Sprogster... 

Life is indeed in limbo for us... We were looking to rent in France for the first few years anyhoo so it doesn't affect anything there.

As undischarged bankrupts do you think we will find it difficult to open a bank account in France?

It really is soul destroying to have lost everything and then be treat like some kind of leper that no-one wants to touch.

We're not ones for giving up that's for sure.. so will continue in our quest to find a better life for us and our children.

Thanks again for your reply

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You've declared yourself bankrupt? Only a Court can do that. Is the case with the Official Receiver or an Insolvency Practitioner? Undischarged? How many months ago? Case will be closed after 12 months, debt written off after any payments you made in that period. Life returns to normal, with a note on your Experian/Equifax file. Credit will be available, etc, etc. I don't do UK consumer debt, but I get all the up dates, and read them.

The legal position in France is not substantially different. Except you will not be able to have a cheque book, or bankcard, all transaction will be over the counter, for as long as the bank wants to be stroppy. Biggest difference in France is that they haven't cottoned on to transferring assets into the wife's name! And they don't have a central consumer debt database, well they do, but only for banks, and only covers very limited info. Thank your lucky stars you weren't in Germany, they virtually sell the kids into slavery there, never mind reducing you to absolute destitution (which I never understand, coz then the State has to look after you, so what's the point?)

Being brutally honest. I'd stay in Britain. At least there are jobs there. Come to France to retire.

 

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 We were made bankrupt in court...as is usual practice. We instigated this process ourselves is what I meant... we were not forced into bankruptcy by the bank/other creditors as can sometimes be the case. We have dealt with both an insolvency practitioner and official receiver and the sharks who buy the debt off the official receiver and then hound the living daylights out of you with heavy threats of further court action if you dont pay them money. Very intimidating and frightening I guess for some people. Luckily the official receiver was very decent when approached for advice.

Velcorin, you simplify things by stating that the case is closed after 12 months. This is not always the case. And i dont believe life simply returns to normal... As i understand it we shall struggle to gain credit for 6 years. As soon as anyone spots the notes on Experian we'll be dropped quicker that a hot rock!!

I very much appreciate your advice re the situation in France... sounds about the same as over here in relation to bank account then..

Our situation isn't any worse in France from a financial point of view I had just hoped it might be slightly better...

 I'm so glad I discovered this website... your warts and all opinions and experiences and advice has knocked off my rose-tinted specs so that I see things for how they are straight from the horses mouth :-)

Thanks again for your input!

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Not sure but I think, like in UK, to rent in France you will have to provide references ?

Good luck in putting it all back together, there is no real stigma attached to a failed business and I'm sure in the current climate you are not alone. In the US they seem to regard it as a rite of passage, a few heroic failures behind you before you hit the motherlode !

Moving to France is a massive step although if you do have a secure job here it obviously makes a new start a lot easier.

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I dont think that in practice you will have any problem opening a bank account in France.

Renting a house is always difficult regarding the dossier that most French landlords and agents expect you to have but again I dont think what has happened in the past will come into it.

I would even go as far as to say that you could probably get a French mortgage within the normal lending criteria based on your UK salary.

I agree that if the French bank or rental agancy were to do a credit check then they would probably easily access your credit history but based on those that I have known to get French mortgages on UK salaries I dont know if these checks are made, the foreign customers certainly seem t get an easier time of it than French ones where checks are rigourously made whereas the loans seem to be easily granted against UK salaries (even fictitious ones) that often cease to exist once the family move to France.

I know of someone that had similar business problems to you in the 80's perhaps worse, he put the keys to his commercial properties through the door of the bank and headed to France in a caravan, with hard work and determination he has since made an good and honest life for his family in France.

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Chancer, the big difference nowadays are the additional detailed anti money laundering/proceeds of crime checks that go on behind the scenes, when a customer opens an account. For example, quite apart from the usual credit checks, there are a number of internet based subscription intelligence services that banks and other financial organisations now regualarily use, such as World-Check and C6. Google them and you will see what I mean.
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[quote user="AnOther"]Not sure but I think, like in UK, to rent in France you will have to provide references ?

Good luck in putting it all back together, there is no real stigma attached to a failed business and I'm sure in the current climate you are not alone. In the US they seem to regard it as a rite of passage, a few heroic failures behind you before you hit the motherlode !

Moving to France is a massive step although if you do have a secure job here it obviously makes a new start a lot easier.

[/quote]

 References for renting properties will not be a problem... we rented before and we're currently in rented property (we're exemplary tenants as our current landlord put it!!!)

We can provide glowing references there.

I hear what you say about rite of passage tho :-) and hopefully this is the case with us!! I'm sure I read some where that 80% of self made millionaires have been bankrupt at least once on their way up!

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We're the same.... determined not to get too bogged down by it all... To be honest when it all ended it was a huge relief...

We're determined that no matter what...we dust ourselves off and start again. An invaluable life lesson for our kids!!! We never give up... it's our house mantra!!!

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Only you and your family will be able to decide what you are going to 'do' in life. Unfortunately in my job I have had to react to instructions from my clients on corporate matters and have seen some very sad events. But I owe a duty to my clients and that is the way it is. I was in the legal profession but now retired (almost)

However after falls comes the ability to get back on your feet and re-establish yourself and your family. I have equally seen many examples of this so everything is possible.

However setting everything aside I can imagine the 'drivers' of a fresh start and all of that and lets get on a ferry and go to France.

Perhaps it might be better to just wait a while get into the UK routine demonstrate all sorts of stuff to all sorts of people and organisations before moving here to France?

You have been through one hell of a series of events and it is not easy but France will too pose you many problems many of which are outlined on this forum. A period of reflection may be something to consider?
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