Bulletin officiel des impots - conversion rate pound/euro

[devilsadvocate]

I'm hoping someone will be able to point me to the conversion rate to use in order to enter this year's tax return. There's usually a table of the countries and the conversion rate for each particular currency. So far I've only found a rate for the dollar; are we supposed to make our own conversion this year?

DA

[parsnips]

[quote user="devilsadvocate"]

I'm hoping someone will be able to point me to the conversion rate to use in order to enter this year's tax return. There's usually a table of the countries and the conversion rate for each particular currency. So far I've only found a rate for the dollar; are we supposed to make our own conversion this year?

DA

[/quote]

Hi,

     If you know it you should use the rate applying on the day you received the income. You can find daily rates on www.xe.com.  The "taxoffice" rate is only to be used when you cannot find the true rate. The daily rate last year was usually lower than the "official" rate of 1.12297 which is being widely quoted.

[cooperlola]

[:-))]

Sorry, devilsadvocate but your forum name bothers me and dear oh dear, this old chestnut?

The LEGAL rate is that on the day you received the money into your bank account (be it British, French or the Caymen Islands.)  You can find these rates for the last few years here:

 

http://www.banque-france.fr/gb/poli_mone/taux/telnomot/qs.d.ceurgbci.csv

 

Your local tax office may allow you to use a single rate but if they do, get it in writing and keep it with your tax papers in case of an audit.

EDIT : Sorry Parsnips we overlapped.  One thing that your post flags up to me - people may wish to decide whether the official daily rate makes them better off than the blanket rate you quote.  However, if in past years they have used an advantageous blanket rate over the daily one for a similar reason, imo any auditor worth his/her salt might well smell a rat.  Whatever system one uses, I personally believe one need to be consistent year on year to stay honest if not totally legal.  At least it's defensible which chosing the rate to suit your pocket is not, imo.

[devilsadvocate]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

[:-))]

Sorry, devilsadvocate but your forum name bothers me and dear oh dear, this old chestnut?

[/quote]

Hello Cooperlola

I'm surprised that my forum name bothers you, but so what, it's just a name!

From little chestnuts mighty conker trees grow.

My local tax office gave me a rate for my first year return in 2005 and directed me to a web page showing the table I mention. Since then I've used the equivalent annual "officiel bulletin des impots" to use for the total of my UK pension. Here's last year's : -

http://www.lexisnexis.fr/pdf/DO/BOI_5f1209.pdf 

The amounts involved are pretty insignificant as far as international monetary matters are concerned, but anyway I've completed 4 more returns in this fashion. so that's 5 in total with no problems.

I'd appreciate a less "scoffing" tone to what is a genuine query. I'm not asking you HOW to do this, just looking for the document. At the time of your reply you had no idea what I wanted the document for. Unless you can show me evidence to the contrary I'll stick with the method given to me by my local office rather than something which is just in your words "your opinion".

DA

[cooperlola]

I appologise unreservedly, DA.  I am so sorry and I hope that at the least I gave you an answer to your question and  a link to the official French rates for every day of the last tax year so that you can fill in your form.

My frustration is not at you but at the fact that we discuss this subject at great length every year (if you do a search you will see what I mean) and I frequently respond with the legal angle (the rate on the day you recieve the money, as defined by the banque de france - ie the link I gave you).  Your forum name just made me wonder whether you were adopting this role and trying to troll yet another discussion of this subject (which often runs to at least double figures in terms of pages of posts whenever it's brought up. ) This one from just a month or so ago: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1980758/ShowPost.aspx

According to the the French Impots:

Revenus encaissés en monnaie étrangère

Si les revenus ou bénéfices en cause ont été encaissés en monnaie étrangère, ils doivent être déclarés pour leur contre-valeur en euros, calculée d'après le cours du change à Paris au jour de l'encaissement (réception en espèces, inscription au crédit d'un compte, etc.) -

(my bold and underline)

Once again, sorry I took my irritation out on you - I'm not at all scoffy really!

[mint]

But, Coops, I LOVE these discussions every year.  I was just looking forward to someone posting about it, so thank you for bringing this subject up, devilsadvocate.

For me, it's like an annual fête which takes place just after Easter and helps me mark off the time in France as I seem to be perpetually in some sort of daze and get days of the week never mind dates of the month all wrong.  Only last week, I went to an appointment a week early![:-))]

BTW, Parsnips, I used your figure last year and had no problems at all.  I am tempted this year to write down the rate I am going to use and put in brackets (according to Parsnips)![:D]

[dragonrouge]

This has given me a headache already. From this avocat I noted following a visit to Impots last year the rate they suggested which differed from those rates listed here and on other forums. In the end I thought that I needed to live with myself and thus started plotting the rates when the funds were received and in my hands not when they were in the ether.

Then other things such as rental incomes in the Uk then other spasmodic payments in the end gave it all to an Experte Comptable who did the business for me. Not huge sums but coming in at differing times of the month etc is not my bag.

Then of course I reached 65 last September so again more payments for 2009. I am looking at a form in a nice plastic envelope which arrived yesterday and have a spreadsheet ready with income and dates and that goes off to the Expert next week. Also pay monthly based on last years amount so at least I may be somewhere near this year and not too much to pay.

[mint]

Poor old dragon, isn't life tough with all these various sources of income?[:P]

[nomoss]

Maybe this is some help

http://www.efl.fr/opencms/opencms/chiffres_delais/fiscal/impot_benef/cours.html

[devilsadvocate]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

I appologise unreservedly, DA.  I am so sorry and I hope that at the least I gave you an answer to your question and  a link to the official French rates for every day of the last tax year so that you can fill in your form.[/quote]

Apology accepted gracefully (and gratefully).

DA

[devilsadvocate]

Na,then (I'm a northern lad) I did some more searching on here and found this post from Sunday Driver last year; no nonsense reply and it suits me!

Quote

I don't know why this always gets so complicated.....

I submitted an on-line request via the main Impots 'contact us' webpage asking them to confirm what the allowable average exchange rate is for 2008 revenus étrangers.

The reply came back in a hour in the form of an e-mail from the Direction Générale des Finances Publique reiterating the standard daily rate procedure, but confirming that for practical purposes, it is permitted to use an average rate.  For sterling, the approved rate for 2008 is 1,049868766.

Simple request, simple reply, 100% official and binding - now printed out and clipped to my personal tax file..... (end quote)

I'll follow his example and do the same!

DA

 

 

[cooperlola]

Sunday Driver's approach (sensible as ever) seems fine to me too - the important thing being that his official answer is there in writing and he can prove it if ever an auditor comes knocking.  The rates as given my ex-pat magazines,  somebody on a forum or whatever, probably wouldn't hold so much water!   Personally, I only have 27calculations to make (2 x 13 pension payments and one interest payment from the building society) so it's a very quick exercise for me to do it as it's printed on the tax return form unlike poor that poor old dragon.[:)]  And this year, unlike last, I'll be in pocket as a result which also goes to prove that it's swings and roundabouts as far as how one fares financially - some years one loses out, some one gains.  

It's interesting that Nomoss's post's rate is not far from the end of year rate according to the Banque de France website, which is another which is occasionally quoted as the correct one.

[chessfou2]

If you want to follow SD's example, make sure you have an appropriate response from the taxman.

Last year I was told by them (dgfip.finances.gouv.fr):

"Bonjour Madame / Monsieur

Bonjour,

lorsque des revenus ont été encaissés en monnaie d'un Etat extérieur à la

zone euro, ils doivent être convertis en euros d'après le cours de l'euro à

la date de l'encaissement. Je vous invite à consulter le site de la banque

de france banque-france.fr qui vous permettra de retrouver les cours de

change quotidiens de l'euro."

But it's no big deal - downloading the daily exchange rates from the BdF and sticking them into a spreadsheet does not take a huge amount of time.

You then know that you have done your duty and "tout marche comme sur des roulettes" .

edited to stick in the 'e' that got stuck in my sticky keyboard. You may use your imagination to determine why my keyboard is sticky - a small prize to the best suggestion (which does not contravene the forum's T&Cs).

[cooperlola]

[quote user="chessfou2"]. You may use your imagination to determine why my keyboard is sticky - a small prize to the best suggestion (which does not contravene the forum's T&Cs).[/quote]The stuff you chuck at the computer every time this subject comes up?  Sorry, I think that's probably just me when I'm having a moody![I]

[chessfou2]

Cooperlola,

Could be. I rather thought someone might ask me "does your chewing gum lose its flavour on the keyboard overnight?"

[dragonrouge]

Yes Sweet 17 it is difficult but then divide income by 44 years of work and then a notional figure for pro bono work and I can live with myself.

Then of course my late Father worked for just 30 years in the pit and had dust and then they gave us £10 to bury him so no lectures please from Porthcawl. South Wales was built upon the work that took place further up the valleys but I do remember one good thing about Porthcawl is when my late Father could not breathe too well he went to a Miners home in Porthcawl where it was believed that fresh air would be good for him.

[mint]

Dragon, for goodness sake, I was only pulling your leg!  What I say is, if you've got it, then bully for you.  If you have earned your money by honest means, then it's there for you to enjoy.

Nah, I'm not a silly, envious sort.  In my ideal world, everyone will have just the amount of money that would enable them to live the life they want.  Doesn't matter how little or how much:  some of richest people I know never seem to ever feel they have enough and some people I know who have very little are perfectly content.

Sometimes, a feeling of abundance bears little relation to money as such.