Contribution Sociales Généralisée/ Contribution pour le Remboursement de la Dette Sociale.

[Bikboks]

We have lived in France for eight years now and pay all our taxes here. We live solely on pension income from former employment in the private sector in the UK, together with  UK State pensions. We have current E121 forms from the time we moved here.

I  receive demands to pay Contribution Sociales Généralisée/ Contribution pour le Remboursement de la Dette Sociale. Every evidence I have is that I am not required to pay this. Friends in similar circumstances have never been asked to pay. Experts' answers to people who have raised this matter before in various journals also confirm this. An item in the Connexion paper dealt with this matter and even a paragraph in the Impôt Bureau's own form 2047 says it is not due under the same circumstances as mine.

Despite this overwhelming evidence our man in the Impôt Bureau here in Moissac is adamant that I have to pay. We have written, and had two phone conversations with him, but he insists that once one in my situation commences to pay tax in France then one is liable to pay a CSG/CRD contribution.

Our next step is to have a face to face meeting but I fear that he will not be made to change his view.

What can I do if he continues to be pigheaded? Is there a higher authority I can appeal to?

Thank you in anticipation.

[Will]

If you get nowhere with your tax office you can refer the matter to your départemental conciliateur fiscal.

See here (about half way down the page) and here

The mere mention of this might be enough to get your awkward tax person to back down. Fonctionnaires hate to be shown to be wrong.

[krusty]

How about the tax simulation ? , a print out with your details in it might help.

http://www3.finances.gouv.fr/calcul_impot/2010/simplifie/index.htm

[suein56]

[quote user="Bikboks"]Our next step is to have a face to face meeting but I fear that he will not be made to change his view.[/quote]

In the early days of our residence here I faced a somewhat similar, but not identical, situation and was categorically advised by my neighbour - who works in the Tax Dept - not to submit to a face-to-face interview. But to deal with the person in question solely by letter; eventually, in our case, this worked.

In your case I can only restate this advice and suggest that Will's suggestion of approaching the conciliator is the way to go.

Sue

[suein56]

[quote user="krusty"]How about the tax simulation ? , a print out with your details in it might help.

[/quote]

Now that is a nifty idea.

Sue

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

Yes you do have to pay this tax ,we are in the same situation but only pay it on UK bank interest ,not on our pensions

Dave

[BJSLIV]

http://www.livingfrance.com/expert-advice-finance-tax-expert-advice-social-charges-in-france--29953

Sets out the logic behind Dave's comment.

 

[parsnips]

Hi,

       If this is being demanded on your pension income (and not just on investment income -on which it is due) , then I agree that you should not go face-to-face , but continue in writing--this gives you written evidence of the taxman's errors. If you email me I can send you a model letter that has worked for many in your circumstances.

      If he still persists then you can send copies of all paperwork to the "Conciliateur Fiscal"--as has been said you can tell the taxman ,when you send him the model letter, that it will form the basis of your submission to the "Conciliateur".

[Bikboks]

Hello there,

Thank you for your useful information. I would be very grateful for a copy of your model letter.

Many thanks

[nomoss]

I corresponded very successfully with my taxman by email over a dispute. As with letters you have copies for reference, and also evidence the mails were delivered if you request Read receipts for your emails to him (provided he acknowledges them), and it's a lot faster.

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Bikboks"]We have lived in France for eight years now and pay all our taxes here. We live solely on pension income from former employment in the private sector in the UK, together with  UK State pensions. We have current E121 forms from the time we moved here.

I  receive demands to pay Contribution Sociales Généralisée/ Contribution pour le Remboursement de la Dette Sociale. [/quote]

The only social charge on 'company' and state old age pensions that is collectable through income tax is CRDS so I'm curious as to why they are charging you CSG as well.  That might suggest that your pensions are being treated as rentes viagères à titre onéreux (annuities) where the charges would apply. 

Perhaps you need to ask your taxman to clarify the basis on which your pensions are being treated.

 

[Bikboks]

Many thanks for sending me the model letter you suggested. There is every indication that this issue will not be settled soon, our Impôt man is  not yielding and we will have to go up the scale.

Cordialement - Malcolm Hipple

[bubbles]

Sorry to be dim.

What I thought was this years avis (for income in 2009) turns out to be a second avis for 2008, this time for prelevements sociaux.

On my tax forms I duly wrote exonere par E121 as advised next to my state pension and bank interest income but seem to have been charged nevertheless.

Have they ignored this and is this exactly the same as Bikboks case?

If so, can you also send me a copy of that magic model letter so I can try and get things changed?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="bubbles"]Sorry to be dim. What I thought was this years avis (for income in 2009) turns out to be a second avis for 2008, this time for prelevements sociaux. On my tax forms I duly wrote exonere par E121 as advised next to my state pension and bank interest income but seem to have been charged nevertheless. Have they ignored this and is this exactly the same as Bikboks case? If so, can you also send me a copy of that magic model letter so I can try and get things changed?[/quote]Bubbles I think the bit I've emboldened is the clue here (although I stand to be corrected by those more in the know than I) but it is only your pension which is exempt - not the bank interest income (as D&O mention above.)

[bubbles]

Oh, yes.

That makes sense now.

Shame I just wrote an email to the tax office!

Still, I was very polite.

Just wonder if they have sent off my P85 to England. Must be due for a bit of dosh back from them.

Thanks, Coops.