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D'Imposition Prelevements Sociaux - Right or Wrong


Rides
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Thanks Norman,

But it is not at that level I'm having the problem - it is understanding what the terms mean, in the context of tax affairs, and it doesn't help that this year, we have the English side to sort out, which means dealing with quite a lot of tax offices, who do not seem to speak to each other .... sounds familiar?

I will wait and see what the book brings up, and see if between that and the pkf book I begin to get somewhere (though I have found that the UK version of events via these so-called consultants, is not always quite how it works when you get here!

Having only ever been on PAYE in the UK, I'm having to get to grips with the system in both countries - it's just something I'd like to sort out for myself rather than following blindly what I'm told and accepting what is on the forms, and as finance and figures are not one of my strongest subjects, it is not as easy for me as it might be for most on this forum.

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Well, that was a waste of a stamp, as I thought it might be.

Just had a reply from my second letter which basically says we don't have a leg to stand on and we have been turned down for exemption of this tax for the following reason...

Le 17/11/2010 le service vous a demande de faire parvenir dans les meilleurs délais :

 Les justificatifs des versements,
 Les justificatifs de votre régime obligatoire français

A ce jour aucun document justificatif n’est parvenu au service.

I have sent our E121's twice now.  What else do they want from me for goodness sake??   I have two months to respond.

Help .........................

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[quote user="Rides"]

Well, that was a waste of a stamp, as I thought it might be.

Just had a reply from my second letter which basically says we don't have a leg to stand on and we have been turned down for exemption of this tax for the following reason...

Le 17/11/2010 le service vous a demande de faire parvenir dans les meilleurs délais :

 Les justificatifs des versements,

 Les justificatifs de votre régime obligatoire français

A ce jour aucun document justificatif n’est parvenu au service.

I have sent our E121's twice now.  What else do they want from me for goodness sake??   I have two months to respond.

Help .........................

[/quote]

Hi,

     Now seems to be the time to put copies of all the correspondence together in date order and send or take them to the office of your department's "Conciliateur Fiscal" (whose details should be on one of the letters you have been sent).  Write a covering letter explaining  your situation and what has been going on with the tax office. In my experience the"Conciliateurs" understand these sorts of things much better than some local tax offices and will sort it out. As they take about 3 months to deal with cases, you should pay any outstanding CSG and tell the "Conciliateur " that you are asking him to obtain repayment for you. 

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Have they had your Attestation from your CPAM?  That would at least confirm to them that you are in a health scheme, even though you obviously have no proof of payment, since you don't pay!  At the very least, make sure a copy of it is amongst the papers you submit to the Conciliateur.  Perhaps somebody at your CPAM would confirm to the tax office that you don't need to pay? 
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[quote user="NormanH"]But if your French is adequate why not just peruse the www.impots.gouv.fr  site carefully?

I have found everything I need to know clearly explained there.

An example of a useful set of information is:

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/particuliers.impot;jsessionid=TSURIS1NNPSSNQFIEMQCFFWAVARXAIV1?pageId=part_impot_revenu&paf_dm=popup&paf_gm=content&typePage=cpr02&sfid=501&espId=1&communaute=1&impot=IR&paf_gear_id=500018&temNvlPopUp=true

[/quote]

Returning to these - with feedback.

We bought the book "payer moins impost pour les nuls" and like the link above is not explaining what I want to know, only what I already know!

Because they are written from a French perspective, it does not explain the nuances I need to know (which can be signifcantly different for non-French as you know).

What I'd like to find is an  equivalent to the Which tax guide which goes step by step though filling in the forms, with examples, and with explanations, and an explanation in similar fashion as to what comes back and what that all means - especially for the csg -  (which I have yet to find explained anywhere).

I have seen recommended a book by Le Particulier, and I will see if that is any good, when I can get to a good bookshop to look at it first!

I'll report back on that once I find it.

Meanwhile, the hunt continues.

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Yes i use Le particulier. They publish a guide each year though i am not sure it will give you what you want. You need to read each revenue type where it gives you the reference to where it goes on the form. The french is not too densly administrative. 1st time round i used that together with a guide called 'Guide Practique du Contribuable' which had the forms  cross referenced to section numbers in the text. Unfortunately the french is very administrative. Even the Tax officer i spoke said he preferred using Le Particulier, which i understood as even as a near bilingual i struggled with the text in the latter guide. But the cross referencing was useful. Each only costs about €7 anyway.

rgds

JFB

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JOhn FB,

Thanks, that sounds very promising - from reading its publicity blurb, it did seem more like the Which guide than anything else I've found so far.  I must admit, it's one of the things I do miss around here, a very good bookshop.  In London were were within walking distance of Dillons (aka Waterstones) and almost any other bookshop you'd care to  name, I could always browse and see what the book was like first, and the choice and subject coverage was impecable.   

As an extra point, I am encouraged by what you say about the different levels of understandability.  My reading French is OK, but there are some books / letters/ journals etc, I just cannot get the hang of even with the dictionary.  The tax forms and explanations are one of them.  Now I know why!!!

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Le particulier is a subscription publication published monthlu for ten months with two or three specific guides one of which is the tax guide. That can be bought at a good news agent or even Carrefour et al, as can the other guide i mentioned. The tax guides are usually available about March/April, tho you might still find 2010. The particulier has a website and like which covers a number of subjects mainly in the tax/finance/rents areas. Tho it also does subjects like telephone contracts. I found it thanks to a mention from Parsnips probably on this site.

rgds JFB

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Here is an explanation of the CSG

http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/finances-publiques/protection-sociale/financement/qu-est-ce-que-csg.html

Note it is

  •  7,5 % pour les revenus d’activité et assimilés (salaires, primes…) ;

  •  8,2 % pour les revenus du patrimoine et de placement (rentes viagères, plus-values…) ;

  •  9,5 % pour les revenus du jeu ;
  •  6,2 ou 6,6 % pour les revenus de remplacement (pensions de retraite, allocations chômage,…).
As previously explained

Pour les revenus perçus à compter du 1er janvier 2005,

elle est en partie déductible de l’impôt sur le revenu, à hauteur de

5,1 % pour les revenus d’activité et de 3,8 et 4,2 % pour les revenus de

remplacement.

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NormanH,

Thanks, but the problem (as afar as my understanding of all this is) is that this is for French people whose pensions etc come into what the French describe as pensions etc.  Eveything I have read of this subject (and where this topic started I think) is that for those of us in the (perhaps fortunate) position of being here with UK pensions only and with an E forms (yes I know they are now S, but we came with E's), should not be paying CSG on those pension incomes.  What I m trying to find out is what they have included on the CSG demand we received (and which we paid) but I need to spend more time that I have at present translating it all, and as the dictionaries don't always give the technical, tax, administrative, or pure usage of the word in the financial context, I am trying to find a guide (as per above) which will help me to see what really is happening all through the process.

OK, I could just say, it doesn't matter, and let it rest, but for my own knowledge I want to know more.  Hence the questions here.

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[quote user="Judith"] What I m trying to find out is what they have included on the CSG demand we received (and which we paid) but I need to spend more time that I have at present translating it all, and as the dictionaries don't always give the technical, tax, administrative, or pure usage of the word in the financial context, I am trying to find a guide (as per above) which will help me to see what really is happening all through the process.

[/quote]

You appear to be making this difficult for yourself when the answer is really quite simple.

The various parts of your income that are subject to the three social contributions are listed on the left of the schedule on the back page of your avis.

Typical entries are:

-  Revenus de capitaux mobiliers = unearned investment income such as savings interest

-  Revenus étrangers = foreign earned income and pensions

-  Revenus fonciers = property rental income

 .....and so on.

The columns on the right show the amount of each type of income that is subject to the three contribution(s) and the percentage of that income that is payable for each contribution.

If your avis mentions any other income type, why not ask here for a translation?  Then you will know what they have included on your demand.....[;-)]

 

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Typical entries are:

-  Revenus de capitaux mobiliers = unearned investment income such as savings interest

-  Revenus étrangers = foreign earned income and pensions

-  Revenus fonciers = property rental income

 .....and so on.

The columns on the right show the amount of each type of income that is subject to the three contribution(s) and the percentage of that income that is payable for each contribution.

If your avis mentions any other income type, why not ask here for a translation?  Then you will know what they have included on your demand.....[;-)]

 [/quote]

Now that is where I started from, and though I asked for more, it was, initially, a request for some help with terminology such as you have just given, and I didn't really get anyhwere.  My memory is that it was capitaux mobiliers - for which I could not easily find a translation, which started me off on this hunt.

Now I can go back and  begin to make some sense of it, that is, after I've picked the olives, the kaki fruit, and gone and had a (I hope) small operation on my retinal tear next week.....

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"help with terminology such as you have just given, and I didn't really get anywhere".

I offered to translate  all this ....

"I could go through the 'Avis d'Impostion' translating each term, but it would be a bit of work.

I will do it if it really helpful to you."
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Sorry, NormanH - yes,. indeed you did, but by that time I was also trying to understand it all as well.  And I've been slightly more than the usual busy recently.  I plan to get to this over Christmas, when I hope to be less busy, and see if I can work it all out then.  I think I need to sit down with dictionary, the "nuls" book and such and just plod through it all, something I don't have the time to do just at present. 

I do appreciate everybody's help - even if I don't seem so at present.

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You're making a real meal of this......

Unless your financial affairs mirror those of Donald Trump, you're only likely to have a handful of types of income that need explaining.  I've already given you details of three, so rather than waste your time ploughing through dictionaries and tax books, why not just take up Norman's kind offer and list the ones you have on this forum.

We're up to eight pages already on this....[8-)]

 

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