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8 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

Control no, alter 100%.

  8 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

Are you really saying the scientific community supports your theory that the climate is simply evolving naturally and the change is not man made? 

Are you really saying that mankind can control the climate of planet earth?

Drayton Boy said

Control no, alter 100%.

 

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14 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

Ken, do you believe that any of the recent serious weather events are a result of mankind's mistreatment of the planet over the last 100 years or so?

No I don't. I really do believe that weather has evolved and will continue to do so. What people confuse either through ignorance or some agenda is that what man is doing to the planet regarding pollution is causing weather change. The two are entirely unrelated.

There can be no doubt that local conditions will affect a 'local climate' such as the 'smogs' that occurred in London blotting out the sun or a volcano erupting and the fallout causing mayhem locally. Globally though weather has and will continue to change, with or without interference from humans.

Natural effects such as the Gulf Stream speeding up or temporarily changing course, the air stream across the Atlantic doing the same affect the weather but they don't change course because man has affected them. The heat wave that is now over all of us is caused by  high and low pressures bringing hot winds from the south, again man hasn't caused that; unless you know differently of course!!! If you could state one single case where something man has done to the planet  has permanantly altered the weather on this planet I would be most surprised and not just swivel eyed loony beliefs but a case with evidence.

 

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I have already acknowledged that since the dawn of time there have been numerous dramatic 'weather events' all over the world but what is happening now is that these events are becoming more frequent, in effect the 'weather patterns' have changed. 

This is a short and simple piece from NASA which explains what I mean, the first two paragraphs from What is Climate Change? are the most relevant.

https://climate.nasa.gov/global-warming-vs-climate-change/ 

 

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1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

I have already acknowledged that since the dawn of time there have been numerous dramatic 'weather events' all over the world but what is happening now is that these events are becoming more frequent, in effect the 'weather patterns' have changed. 

This is a short and simple piece from NASA which explains what I mean, the first two paragraphs from What is Climate Change? are the most relevant.

https://climate.nasa.gov/global-warming-vs-climate-change/ 

 

I read it and I haven't changed my views at all. And you still haven't given me any 'proof' that what is happening with regard 'disasters' or anything else is down to makind.

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I second the question Ken. What would you regard as proof?

It is an empirical fact that human activity is releasing more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere than the planet is capable of reabsorbing. It is a scientific fact that these gasses help prevent heat from leaving the planet. They are the reason we don't all freeze to death at night when we are out of sight of the sun. Logic would say more gas would lead to more heat retention.

The question is what happens next. You believe that 'the weather' will evolve. You're right. Unfortunately the evolution will probably lead to extinction. There is another planet in the solar system whose 'weather' has evolved following a dramatic greenhouse event and that's Venus.

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I think to answer this question, you have to look at nature.

I am a country lad. Born (sort of) and bred.

I can tell you that nature is in decline. I see it everyday. 

You just have to look around you to know that nature is in trouble. 

Without nature, humans will soon be very decessed. 

We are fecking the planet. Sorry, we have fecked the planet. It is really too late. So enjoy 28 degrees in late October. Because you may not get the chance again.

But I bring this back to a 'French Forum' perspective. 

I really do think France is fecked more than other countries.  Pesticides and tourism...and everything else. It is shocking how France treats its nature. 

Then any remaining nature left gets shot by a drunken mob who have nothing better to do in life.

So yeah, don't move to France for the nature. It has become an industralised wastehole. 

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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3 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

If you won't accept research results from a body like NASA who have continually studied weather patterns and the climate for decades then what possible proof can anyone give you that mankind is responsible for what we are experiencing now? 

NASA is about the very worst example of official organisations you could have chosen for your "proof" .

They are notorious for climate data fraud and have been for many years.

 

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56 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

Where is your proof of that?

It comes from an old blog post by a climate change denier which was picked up by Fox News in 2014. Stacy Dooley on Fox and Friends pointed out that, up until the year 2000, NASA had declared 1934 the hottest year on record then 'suddenly' changed their mind and announced it was 1998. Unfortunately the reasoning is a little complicated for the average American so "conspiracy" was shouted from the rooftops. To put it very simply temperature measurements were taken very differently when records began. Some of the measuring stations didn't exist a hundred years ago, or were in a different place. Temperatures might have been taken in the morning or the afternoon whereas nowadays they are taken at night. There were many reasons why it was not reasonable to compare apples with pears so computer models were designed to extrapolate more accurate trends from the historic data available. Such models have become common place, not just at NASA. If you have not seen the BBC drama "The Trick" about a Norfolk professor accused of massaging the same raw data to prove the existence of Climate change I suggest you look it out.

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20 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

I was aware of the blog post and saw the BBC drama about the Prof, he worked at the Climate Research Unit near where I used to live.

If that's the sum total of the 'proof' that NASA commit data fraud that's pretty poor.

As far as I'm aware the only other 'controversy' around NASA's data stems from an open letter from former employees requesting NASA refrain from commenting on what they consider a debatable situation. The reasons for their letter are not made clear and, if I was inclined to believe in conspiracy theories, I'd suspect I'd be looking for links to the oil industry. Unfortunately as someone once said "A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is lacing up his boots"

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29 minutes ago, cajal said:

How much will the cloud and fallout effect contribute to climate change following Putin's proposed ☢️nuclear☢️ onslaught?  Whatever the outcome, we won’t need to wait until 2050/60 to find out.

Yep. 

Nuclear vs Climate change. What will cook you first ?

Anyway.....we are fecked.

The question is.....will Scotland get independence from Britain before the world is fecked.

I reckon not. 😁

NS is really wasting her time. She should be enjoying her limited time on this planet like the rest of us. 

 

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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2 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

I was aware of the blog post and saw the BBC drama about the Prof, he worked at the Climate Research Unit near where I used to live.

If that's the sum total of the 'proof' that NASA commit data fraud that's pretty poor.

Do you mean this UEA? The one where Professor Phil Jones worked? Where he colluded to alter past temperature records, so the data would fit the theory?

While it doesn't prove NASA's involvement - I've got some more on their antics for later!

Here's an email to Phil Jones of the UEA discussing how to do it.

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Edited by Harnser
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Yep, that's exactly it, discussing how to interpret raw data to provide an accurate model. Just like any good scientist.

The 1940's ocean blip for example was caused by WW2.

Prior to that, the UK and US fleets had contributed roughly equally to the global temperature record. From 1942 to 1945, UK ships were mobilised on the front and contributed just 5% of measurements. Measurements taken from US ships made up 80%.

The key, then, is how each nation took its measurements. UK ships tended to throw a bucket overboard and lift it on deck to take the water’s temperature. US ships by and large would sample water drawn into the engine room before it was used to cool the machinery.

Researchers have known for some time that each method has a bias. Temperatures measured in the buckets tend to be lower than those obtained when a thermometer is placed directly into the ocean because heat escapes from it as it is heaved on deck. The type of bucket can influence the temperature as well: wooden buckets, common in the 19th century, offer better insulation than the canvas buckets used in the 20th century. Engine room measurements, on the other hand, tend to be higher than the actual water temperature because these rooms are hot.

So a temperature record dominated by US measurements in the early 1940s would show the sea surface to be warmer than it actually was at the time.

Moreover, late in 1945, the UK resumed its measurements and for a period was responsible for half the global record while the US share dropped to 30%. This period is biased towards cooler, bucket-based temperatures, and corresponds to the sudden 1945 dip.

It's reckoned that the fallout from the UEA data hack lost the world ten years. They never did find out who did it.

 

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10 hours ago, Harnser said:

Do you mean this UEA? The one where Professor Phil Jones worked? Where he colluded to alter past temperature records, so the data would fit the theory?

While it doesn't prove NASA's involvement - I've got some more on their antics for later!

Here's an email to Phil Jones of the UEA discussing how to do it.

image.jpeg.15db1472061f67b6c595b29247a56e64.jpeg

 

 

I admire your persistency but really it is a waste of time. At the moment the looneys are in the ascendancy and are being fed by politicians looking out for themselves. These people make ALBF look reasonably stable!!

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1 hour ago, DaveLister said:

I note you haven't answered the question Ken.

What would you accept as proof.

How about unequivocal proof. If that's difficult to understand try 'proof' that hasn't been contested. Off you go, scour the internet; must be some irrefutable proof out there I feel sure!

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13 minutes ago, Ken said:

How about unequivocal proof. If that's difficult to understand try 'proof' that hasn't been contested. Off you go, scour the internet; must be some irrefutable proof out there I feel sure!

No, your turn.

You find me a 'proof' that isn't contested by someone, somewhere.

You find me an example of your high standard.

The earth is round? Still contested by some.

Man landed on the moon? Contested by even more.

Sandy Hill Massacre? Anyone??

 

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