French Bank Account - Necessary?

[SteveB]

Hi. We have a "residence secondaire" in France, and have been using our BNP Paribas account to run it. This account costs us around 105 euros each year (5 euros a month plus 45 euros for the debit card). We now have a free Wise account on the internet (UK pounds and Euro accounts), to which we have transferred all the "prelevements" we have, and which we can use to transfer money (internet) to French businesses etc. and, with their debit card, withdraw cash from ATM's. (The euro account has a Belgian IBAN, so has to be accepted in France and throughout the EU.) The only thing you don't get is a cheque book.

I am tempted to close the BNP Paribas account and save the cost. Does anyone find/foresee a problem of not having cheques available, and not having a true "French" account??

[menthe]

Just get rid of the debit card.  You don't say whether you have a credit card. 

Even with a French credit card, the amount you can run up weekly tend to be on the mean side.  So, for example, you need to buy a couple of biggish items in the course of a single week, you could easily be over the allowable amount.  That's when a cheque is useful, if you are over your limit by credit card, you could write a cheque.

Anyone else has contrary or supplementary thoughts on this?

As for cash, there are some stores now that "prefer" credit cards, especially since the pandemic and cash is seen as less hygienic!!!

[anotherbanana]

You can ask your bank to increase the allowed amount on your debit card by simply popping into your branch. At least that is what I did.

[Lehaut]

We have Revolut and Boursarama as our main French bank accounts.  We have a cheque book for neither bank.  Not had any problems in spending large amounts of money on the cards in a given period of time.  Have not needed to use a cheque in a retail environment for years.  Cash is the same, we use the card for a baguette upwards.  Lowest amount was  64 cents for a motorway charge.

[menthe]

I am most interested in anotherbanana's and Lehaut's posts and they will both know that I have always respected their sound advice and opinions.

Most retailers, I do agree, will accept cards, debit or credit.  I have a personal reservation about using debit cards because I feel that they are too much like cash and that I am effectively opening my personal fortunes (OK, all the money in my current accounts) to fraudsters and thieves!  I would welcome others' sentiments on debit cards because sometimes I fear that my suspicion of them might be unwarranted!

Back to cards, I get the occasional request for cheques to be sent through the post for the different associations, the Nordic Walking group, the gym, various walking and excursions managed by its members.  These types of organisations tend to be small, run by volunteers and, while they have an association bank account, they seldom have the facility to accept cards of any description.

[Harnser]

 "I have a personal reservation about using debit cards because I feel that they are too much like cash and that I am effectively opening my personal fortunes (OK, all the money in my current accounts) to fraudsters and thieves! "

You may have noticed that the various numbers on your debit card bear no relation whatsoever to your bank account, except to an electronic card machine and the system behind it,  and to get that to work you need to type in your four digit passcode at the point of sale.

However, by writing and presenting a cheque, you are giving anybody who has evil intent, your account number, bank branch,  and your signature. 

Which of these two options is safer?

[anotherbanana]

I have a French debit card, a UK credit card and debit card. I use the French one for small purchases, groceries, fuel and the like and the UK credit card for bigger stuff. I cant remember the last time I used the UK debit card apart from getting money from a UK cash machine which is very rare.

[menthe]

4 hours ago, Harnser said:

 "I have a personal reservation about using debit cards because I feel that they are too much like cash and that I am effectively opening my personal fortunes (OK, all the money in my current accounts) to fraudsters and thieves! "

You may have noticed that the various numbers on your debit card bear no relation whatsoever to your bank account, except to an electronic card machine and the system behind it,  and to get that to work you need to type in your four digit passcode at the point of sale.

However, by writing and presenting a cheque, you are giving anybody who has evil intent, your account number, bank branch,  and your signature. 

Which of these two options is safer?

Harnser, I have to disagree with you that " the various numbers on your debit card bear no relation whatsoever to your bank account"  On my debit card, I have the 16 numbers across the middle, what type of account it relates to near the top right-hand corner, then after dates of validity and my name, I have right across the bottom, the sort code and my account number.  Of course my signature is on the back of the card too.  Therefore no difference from a cheque.

The only difference I have found over the years is that whereas a credit card limits the amount of theft to your credit limit, a debit card limits it to the amount you have in your current account.  I also seem to remember a few posts on this very forum where people have set up direct debits to their debit cards and were then unable to stop the dds.  The only solution that was found eventually was to change accounts and debit card numbers.

With credit cards you should have some protection if you found a theft early on but with debit cards, it's a case of when it's gone, it's gone.  Is that not so?

[Lehaut]

With both the Revolut and Boursorama cards they work closely in conjunction with the relevant app on your phone.  Within seconds of using either card, I get an alert on my phone to tell me a transaction has taken place.  For larger transaction on the net, I often have to authorise the transaction on my phone before it takes place, in real time.  Neither alert option is available with a cheque book.  Most associations etc have a bank account, it does not take long to set up a virement on your phone to send them the money.  In recent months, this also as been virtually instantaneous.  From our RBS account in Scotland to Revolut takes seconds, Revolut to Boursoroma the same.  When I set up a new virement, I always start with a 10€ transaction to make sure I have put in the right numbers.  Even buying stuff of Leboncoin you can do an on the spot payment.  Gone are they days of "bank account reconciliation" for outstanding cheques!

I have had payments made on my Amazon account using a debit card in the USA.  A couple of hundred were taken, several thousand more were in the basket.  I contacted the card issuer (ING) and got the transactions stopped and the money returned.  Most apps have a "stop" action to freeze your card.  Revolut has "virtual" card which we use for on line purchases.  It can be used only once, so no chance of it being cloned.

The bottom line is to use what you are comfortable with.  I just love the tech behind the cards, the ease of operation, almost free sterling/euro exchanges etc.  I have nothing to do with either company.

[menthe]

Thank you for your further explanations, Lehaut. 

A few years ago, I looked at some internet banks, including Boursorama but for some reason or other I chose Hello Bank.  Used them for a year and it was useful when I bought my new car online.  Then closed it because I didn't particularly like it.

Perhaps it's time I looked again at the 2 banks you have mentioned.  Do you use those for the impôts people?  Would they put money they owe you into the accounts?  Also CPAM?

Thanks in advance, Lehaut.  I do not have a smart phone so I guess that would restrict my use considerably?

[Harnser]

On 07/09/2022 at 15:35, menthe said:

Harnser, I have to disagree with you that " the various numbers on your debit card bear no relation whatsoever to your bank account"  On my debit card, I have the 16 numbers across the middle, what type of account it relates to near the top right-hand corner, then after dates of validity and my name, I have right across the bottom, the sort code and my account number.  Of course my signature is on the back of the card too.  Therefore no difference from a cheque.

 

Your bank debit may very well have all that you describe on it - our CA bank debit cards do not.

[menthe]

OK, Harnser.  I looked at my UK bank debit card.  I do not have a debit card for our French bank because of the extra costs.  OH does have a debit card though so the next time I manage to get into his wallet, I will have a look at his card!

And no, I didn't mean to suggest that he is tight with his wallet or his money!!😁  

[Lehaut]

"Perhaps it's time I looked again at the 2 banks you have mentioned.  Do you use those for the impôts people?  Would they put money they owe you into the accounts?  Also CPAM?

Thanks in advance, Lehaut.  I do not have a smart phone so I guess that would restrict my use considerably?"

For the first part, Boursorama acts just like a normal bank, we do standing orders etc, so yes to the CPAM and Impôts.   We have standing orders paid into Revolut, but none going out.  In principle it acts just like a normal bank, so everything should be possible.  You can use it on line without a phone, but the extra security in alerts and authorisations might be difficult for both systems.

 

[menthe]

Thank you very much, Lehaut, for explaining everything so well.

[Martin963]

This thread has been a great help,   but I wonder if perhaps one of you kind folk could expand a bit to my case...?

I've just been hit by eye watering higher charges by LCL,  of which I've been a customer for over thirty years.    Instead of €12 a quarter as up to now,   they are going to charge me 2 x €30 per quarter,   on top of the debit card + assurance,  bringing my annual charge for a bank account that I no longer really need to close to €400 per year.    We sold our house back in 2019,   and without going into great detail part of the funds involved are still with LCL.    The given reason for LCL's new higher charges is that the accounts are not in daily use and I'm considered a foreigner now that we're not in the EU.

 

I would like to move the money to somewhere else,   and the mention of Revolut above sounds good.    But I have a couple of worries,   after a fairly irksome experience with Ferratum Bank a few years ago.    (I'm still not sure if I think Ferratum were on the level or not,   and luckily had committed only a couple of grand to them). 

 

Based as I am entirely in Britain,   can I actually have a € account?    I don't want to change the euro proceeds of the house into £s but am not sure if that's how it works.   Do I start with a £ Revolut account and then open an associated € one? 

How safe is Revolut?  I see it's covered by the bank guarantee but is based in Lithuania?     Awfully close to the Russian border if push came to shove?

Any advice or alternatives gratefully received.   I'd really have preferred to open another account in France with an outfit less determined to treat me as a vache au lait,   but with no French address now I imagine that's nigh on impossible.

 

Thanks folks.

[Martin963]

Bother!   I've opened my Revolut account,   which has appeared in sterling as I expected.   However,   I can't see an option for creating a € account into which to transfer the funds in LCL.   I rather think I've completely misunderstood the concept of Revolut.   With Ferratum you could have separate accounts in separate currencies,   I'm rather afraid I've got the wrong end of the stick with Revolut.   

 

Unless anyone can give me guidance?

[Martin963]

Update - silly me,   just unfamiliarity.   I've found the way to open the € account.  

Steep learning curve for those of us not so familiar with smartphones!

[Lehaut]

Great thread, questions posed and answered!  One thing to note with Revolut, there is a limit to the limited charges on the account.  If you convert more than £1000 a month, you get to pay more than the standard rate.  This changes if you have one of their premium cards.  You can also place market orders at more than the current rate under the "Limit Orders" section.  It is quite quick.  We did our monthly transfer on the day Truss went and made a whole 3€ betting pound would rise 🙂

[Martin963]

Thanks Lehaut.   Presumably there's no limit on incoming amounts (as I will have to do moving money from LCL to Revolut) provided it stays in the same currency?

 

I've also set up a Wise account,   and interestingly LCL who first said that I'd just have to  lump the new charges are now saying they'll consult higher up to see if they can bring the new charges back down nearer the old.   Clearly a bit of Anglo-Saxon intransigence has had an effect,   I told them I was off and would start moving money and it's concentrated a few minds.    They're due to phone me to negotiate later today.

 

Awful dinosaur of a bank though,   at the moment I can't do transfers to Britain or Belgium IBANs without applying and then waiting for a courrier with a code to enter on the internet.    With huge charges and out of date procedures no wonder so many complain about LCL.

[Lehaut]

There is not limit I have found on incoming amounts, nor transferring money out if in same currency.  Revolut now have a UK IBAN (they did when I joined some time ago, but have had problems).  Transfers from them to French accounts take seconds. If you have friends/relatives with them, they get an ID so you can tx money that way.

[Martin963]

Thanks Lehaut.    From what I can gather the "no limits" ties in with what you've found.   I did enquire yesterday both from Wise and Revolut as to how they treat larger sums coming in - forcement the money from the sale of our house in 2019 is not an insignificant sum.   I offered to send a pdf of the sale agreement to them in advance,   but they seemed happy to review any incoming payments on an as-and-when basis and ask questions on legitimacy as they arise.

[NormanH]

I use Boursorama  which  give me free banking and excellent service and Wise which gives me UK and French IBANS  plus the advantage of  being able to create 'virtual' cards for single transactions which can then be 'frozen' or destroyed so they can't be re-debited.  I still  have  Crédit Agricôle account too mainly for historic reasons, but also so I could pay in cash if eve anyone gave me any...

[Martin963]

Thanks NormanH.    Interesting idea about "virtual cards",   I saw mention of them but thought "too complicated for me",   as would be linking my phone to the account.    But I'll investigate further,   it's a fascinating idea.

 

Sadly LCL are refusing to budge from these eye-watering charges (in spite of which they said they'd like to speak to me on the phone,  but when they tried they then claimed that they weren't allowed to ring numbers in Britain,    which seems a bit ironic when they're trousering €60 a quarter from me henceforth).     Talking to French friends the reputation of LCL is at rock bottom,  slow,   blundering,  out of date and expensive.   It'll take a couple of months to empty the account but I shall consider myself well out of their grasp.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Martin963

[Lehaut]

Revolut do the virtual cards too.  We have used them several times when shopping on line.