Jump to content

New tax on non resident home owners


Aly
 Share

Recommended Posts

If the poison dwarf thinks that by having a second home in France, we don't make a valid contribution - then so be it!

I hope that the 'second homes' subject to extra taxation will also include static 'tin tents', and while he's at it he may as well make every other tourist pay a tax for simply entering France, as obviously tourism contributes nothing and is simply a drain on resources!

It's looking very much like my visitations are numbered, and I'll be more than happy to get rid of my retreat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 256
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

if you can sell it, Salty Sam.

The two house taxes, foncière and habitation, are based on the notional rental value of the property, so perhaps they will adjust these for 2nd home owners. Otherwise , how would they collect the tax (owners not french fiscal residents.) And what if people just refuse to pay? Will they be pursued in the UK etc?

If it's passed, bad news all round. It's going to make rural properties much harder to sell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Catalpa"][quote user="powerdesal"]I really dont think anyone went as far as saying that the French economy is being kept afloat by second home owners. [/quote]
Well, I'm sure that's what they're saying on AngloInfo. Do you mean it's not true?! [8-)]




[:-))]
[/quote]

To repeat what Mandy Rice Davies said in court:

Well, they would, wouldn't they?[:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why am I not surprised. Just as I have saved up enough to buy a ticket they change the destination of the train.

Oh well will just have to do a few more days work to pay for it.

Ones first instinct is to get angry ( & perhaps feel it’s a racist act) however what one needs to consider is if this tax was in place when you first purchased your property would you still have bought it ?

Perhaps a gallic shrug is called for and get on with life.

(and quietly hope it gets challenged in the EU court)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The UK frequently discusses a second-home tax. Okay, it has not been implemented and it would be very unpopular if it was... because unlike the proposed French tax, the way it is discussed, it would apply to second-homes owned by British residents.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how this proposed (French) tax can be realistically challenged in the EU courts because a) it doesn't seem to be discriminating against anyone and b) there is a substantial autonomy as to how each country arranges taxation regulations. Overseas-resident French nationals (actually ex-France tax residents of any nationality) would be affected too, just not necessarily immediately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are right Woolybanana. It’s unfortunate that the general public see second home owners as rich.

The truth is in most cases is the way people choose spend their money. In our case we don’t spend £3000 each year flying off to exotic places or spend a lot of money on going out and other transient luxuries. We work and save so that we can afford just one nice thing.

The general public tend to blow their money and then look around with envy at those who have been more prudent.

About 40 years ago one of my friends mothers had a cottage in Cornwall where she took her children every summer (a bit like an Enid Blighton story). However to afford this she went without a lot of things even a television and a car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="fisherman"] It’s unfortunate that the general public see second home owners as rich.... The general public tend to blow their money and then look around with envy at those who have been more prudent.[/quote]

Who is "the general public"?

I think perhaps you could brush up on your notions (stereotyped, and bordering on the offensive) of what "the general public" does, or doesn't.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A tax of 20% on rental value is going to be a lot of tax. How would any rental value be worked out? I would guess my place would be 200 euros a week to rent (but in truth I haven't got a clue) which would present me with a tax bill of around 2000 euros a year. That sort of money is enough to deter a lot of people owning a second home in France and I do not believe even politicians are so stupid as to implement a tax that would drive a huge amount of investment from their country. I think I will wait and see what happens before I get my knickers in a twist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Devon"]A tax of 20% on rental value is going to be a lot of tax. How would any rental value be worked out? I would guess my place would be 200 euros a week to rent (but in truth I haven't got a clue) which would present me with a tax bill of around 2000 euros a year. That sort of money is enough to deter a lot of people owning a second home in France and I do not believe even politicians are so stupid as to implement a tax that would drive a huge amount of investmnent from their country. I think I will wait and see what happens before I get my knickers in a twist.[/quote]

If you look at your existing TF and TdH bills, you will find that the TdH is a percentage of a notional "valeur locative brut" which is stated on your form, and the TF is a (higher!) percentage of a base figure exactly half of the notional "valeur locative". My understanding is that the new tax will be 20% of the base figure as shown in the TdH (and hence 40% of the base figure for TF).

Regards

Pickles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Pickles"][quote user="Devon"]A tax of 20% on rental value is going to be a lot of tax. How would any rental value be worked out? I would guess my place would be 200 euros a week to rent (but in truth I haven't got a clue) which would present me with a tax bill of around 2000 euros a year. That sort of money is enough to deter a lot of people owning a second home in France and I do not believe even politicians are so stupid as to implement a tax that would drive a huge amount of investmnent from their country. I think I will wait and see what happens before I get my knickers in a twist.[/quote]

If you look at your existing TF and TdH bills, you will find that the TdH is a percentage of a notional "valeur locative brut" which is stated on your form, and the TF is a (higher!) percentage of a base figure exactly half of the notional "valeur locative". My understanding is that the new tax will be 20% of the base figure as shown in the TdH (and hence 40% of the base figure for TF).

Regards
Pickles
[/quote]

 

Thanks Pickles. I am just finishing rebuilding a total ruin (3 walls were all I started with)  at the moment and it will be completed  by the summer. I guess I will get all the information when I notify the appropriate authority of completion. Maybe I should refrain from informing them for a while [:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Devon"]

[quote user="Pickles"][quote user="Devon"]A tax of 20% on rental value is going to be a lot of tax. How would any rental value be worked out? I would guess my place would be 200 euros a week to rent (but in truth I haven't got a clue) which would present me with a tax bill of around 2000 euros a year. That sort of money is enough to deter a lot of people owning a second home in France and I do not believe even politicians are so stupid as to implement a tax that would drive a huge amount of investmnent from their country. I think I will wait and see what happens before I get my knickers in a twist.[/quote]

If you look at your existing TF and TdH bills, you will find that the TdH is a percentage of a notional "valeur locative brut" which is stated on your form, and the TF is a (higher!) percentage of a base figure exactly half of the notional "valeur locative". My understanding is that the new tax will be 20% of the base figure as shown in the TdH (and hence 40% of the base figure for TF).

Regards
Pickles
[/quote]

 

Thanks Pickles. I am just finishing rebuilding a total ruin (3 walls were all I stated with)  at the moment and it will be completed  by the summer. I guess I will get all the information when I notify the appropriate authority of completion. Maybe I should refrain from informing them for a while [:D]

[/quote]Or possibly refrain from completing the last (insignificant) bit of work[:)]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your "generalist comment" seemed to broadly cut the world into two sections:

1) "us" (i.e. secondary houseowners in France)

2) "them" ("the general public", i.e. non secondary houseowners in France)....this is a rather vast category, as it might include anything from an Australian multinational boss with a whole range of properties in various countries (except France), to the struggling one-parent French family who rents a rather dilapidated flat down the road. I am not sure that my two random examples have much in common, apart from being "the general public" to you. Unless you mean by "general public", "anybody who is not me".[:D] - that is entirely possible.

I guess you couldn't help trying to have another dig!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="fisherman"]I think you are right Woolybanana. It’s unfortunate that the general public see second home owners as rich. The truth is in most cases is the way people choose spend their money. In our case we don’t spend £3000 each year flying off to exotic places or spend a lot of money on going out and other transient luxuries. We work and save so that we can afford just one nice thing. The general public tend to blow their money and then look around with envy at those who have been more prudent. About 40 years ago one of my friends mothers had a cottage in Cornwall where she took her children every summer (a bit like an Enid Blighton story). However to afford this she went without a lot of things even a television and a car.[/quote]Aha.  So if I'd rather go on holiday in a different place every year than be tied down to one, that makes me profligate and you prudent.  Sorry, but it just means we both like to spend our holidays differently.  And it certainly doesn't make me envy you because I'd rather not go to the same old place year in year out, however nice.  I'd rather have a different experience every year, thanks.  By the time I was ten I had been to France, Italy, Spain,  and Switzerland and that in the days when going abroad was very unusal.  Maybe my parents should have bought a cottage in Cornwall - perhaps that experience would have been better for me, do you think?  Would I have been speaking conversational French even before I began to study it at school?

Whether you spend your money on a holiday home of your own or on holidays abroad, you're probably better off than those who cannot afford either. 

But I digress.  I reckon there are good economic arguments agains this proposal and the idea that second home owners contribute nothing to the local economy is just plain daft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.connexionfrance.com/Holiday-home-government-tax-non-residents-12723-view-article.html

Some upto date info. My concern is that this tax will inevitably increase year on year. It may in some regions affect house prices particulaly where there is a boyant

overseas market

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just picked up on this thread, we bought our house in 2004 - then spent all available holidays for 6 years up until we retired, bringing it up to to a respectable standard. It was our intention to move to France but the state of the EU made us decide not to. So we spend around 3-4 months in a year in France. We don't rent out but are always happy to receive visitors from the UK - mainly family and friends. As others, we have spent lots of EU's in various DIY places. on local artisans, supermarkets etc.

As well as paying for utilities,which are more than we pay in the UK. And now we are expected to pay another tax -We have recently been thinking about selling up and buying a narrow boat in the UK - so this maybe the deciding factor.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The French press has some interesting articles on the topic. For those who read French, the following article questions both the validity and wisdom of such a measure:  "une nouvelle mauvaise idée"

http://www.lecri.fr/2011/05/10/la-taxation-de-la-residence-secondaire-des-etrangers/23432

And here is a map of the all the "maisons secondaires" in France (there were around 3,1 million in 2007,  not differentiating between foreign-owned and French-owned):

http://www.journaldunet.com/economie/magazine/dossier/les-cartogrammes-des-regions-de-france-selon-l-economie/nombre-de-residences-secondaires.shtml

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can work out how much it would be - look on the back of your Tax Foncière statement, and find the figure next to "base" (just under addresse). multiply this by 12 and that's the annual figure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...