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What I don't understand is why nobody has been named or been bought to task for what went on. I watched the chair of the enquiry waffling on this morning on the news and really she said nothing, and it took her 5 years to come to that conclusion.

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In her defence, there were (I believe) 5k or so cases to be investigated.  That takes a lot of time.

Having said that, its clear that things were badly wrong there.   Very worrying for any ‘expectant’ couples to hear that there are still concerns about the situation there.

A lot of sadness all round.  

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The NHS has been a failure for a very long time. This is just another example of its incompetence. I do have personal experience regarding how 'efficient' it is and it's quite horrendous. trying to be objective though it is quite plain the whole system is poor. There are many individuals who are good and very professional but as a whole it needs throwing in the bin and starting again. I wouldn't mind betting there are even worse disasters waiting to be revealed.

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Without sufficient resources, there's only so much that can be done. I'm sorry to say that we are following fast on their heals with insufficient money being put into public health here as well. No sign of any real change coming in either country; if there will be any significant injections of cash and human resources, it's more likely to be here than in UK.

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10 hours ago, ko12x2 said:

Without sufficient resources, there's only so much that can be done. I'm sorry to say that we are following fast on their heals with insufficient money being put into public health here as well. No sign of any real change coming in either country; if there will be any significant injections of cash and human resources, it's more likely to be here than in UK.

We had a taste (again) of French AE services last Sunday when baby ALBF slipped on the floor and knocked himself out when his head hit a beam. Just calling for an Amublance was a disaster. There was nothing 'emergency' about it. 

After speaking to someone we got put on hold for 5 mins which nobody answered. We then used a another phone to call again. In the meantime baby ALBF was driffting in and out of consciousness. The woman also gave a bôllocking to my wife telling her 'don't tell me how to do my job' when we were sreaming for an ambulance. 

After 'hard' perswading someone to send us a god dam Ambullance it took the pompiers a good 20-30 minutes to arrive. We live 10 mins from the hospital. So it was a good 40-50 mins since the accident. Then another 10 mins drive to the hospital. 

After arriving at the hospital it was a 5 hour wait.

Luckly he was OK, but if it had been more serious his chances were not good. 

 

Ooh....a bloke got stabbed (9 times) the other day in the centre of Tours. Apparently it took 20 mins for an ambulance to arrive. That is in the centre of Tours. 

So yeah, same in France. 

 

 

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A very good result that your child is well. What I don't understand is why did you not take the child to the hospital yourself?, particularly if it was only ten minutes away? 

Any ambulance service is really just a taxi service anyway. The procedures the personnel can administer are fairly limited. Quite honestly I would advise anyone at any time to learn some basic emergency procedures and become less dependent on the state!! Quite obviously there is a need for an ambulance service but in many cases an individual is better served by acting quickly and independently, if they can. 

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7 minutes ago, Ken said:

A very good result that your child is well. What I don't understand is why did you not take the child to the hospital yourself?, particularly if it was only ten minutes away? 

 

I considered it for a about a nano second.

It was a head injury and I meen side of your head where the skin is really thin. 

Think Micheal Schumacher !

You don't want to drive a baby with a head injury (even for 10 minutes) swaying about in a baby seat.

Also, have you ever been to an AE dept in France ?. If you arrive by car, you then have to queue to sort out the administration first. That queue itself can take an hour depending on how many people are there.

An Ambulance will get to the front on the queue. 

Also, this hospital (like many others) is on strike. They are working of course, but they are on strike. 

It is a mess. I can tell you other stories if you want. 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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It was your decision of course but I would have acted differently had I thought it was an emergency. Incidentally, I wouldn't have strapped the child in a seat where it can 'wobble' about but held it firmly in someones lap. I have been (unfortunately!!!) to the emergency department a couple of times and found that they will do an assessment quickly, if needed. A child semi conscious with a head injury would fall into that category. 

We make choices and make decisions and have to stand by them. My advice about learning some basic first aid still stands , it can be a life saver if you decide you are going to wait for that bloody ambulance!!!

Glad your child is o.k. no doubt it was very worrying.

 

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I'm so glad your boy is okay ALBF.  That must have been a dreadful experience.

Your answer to Ken's question is what I thought you would say.  I can understand it.  We all do what we think is best under the circumstances.

We had to take our daughter to the hospital after an accident at school, when she was 7 years old.  She was taken to the hospital in Carpentras (in an ambulance).  That was an exceptional experience - thank God. 

We had take her again when she was in Collège after another student (a boy) hit her with his phone and broke her nose !!  Both times we had a very positive experience with the hospital and medical staff.  Perhaps we were lucky.  We certainly had heard MANY horror stories about the same hospital.  We used it again for 2 surgical procedures - non emergency - with great success too.

One of the first things we did when we arrived where we are currently living (and at our previous locations in France) is to locate the nearest hospital (with emergency services).  We make sure we know how to drive to it.  If there are choices, we always ask local residents which one they feel is better and why.

Husband and I have discussed the fact that ambulance services are not always likely to offer the type of service you might expect (no matter what country you reside in) or whether it is a private ambulance or a State ambulance.

Always good to have a plan B.

Big hugs to your little one for a smooth recovery.

 

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ALBF, I'm sure you were right. I hold the PSC1 and we never learned anything about head injuries, other than put in PLS (Position Latérale de sécurité; and even that's not 100% with a head injury) and await the pompiers. 

 

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I find it unbelievable from my experience of les Urgences that a child with a head injury 'drifting in and out of conciousness' would not have gone to the front of the queue, let alone wait 5 hours.

 

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21 minutes ago, NormanH said:

I find it unbelievable from my experience of les Urgences that a child with a head injury 'drifting in and out of conciousness' would not have gone to the front of the queue, let alone wait 5 hours.

 

Well there you go.

4-5 hour wait for normal stuff. 1-2 hours for fractures.....on that day.

* The waiting room was full (apparently) of Gens de Voyage with their kids which did not help...... I guess.

This was a childrens hospital.

 

* Of course the kids of Gens de Voyage should be seen like any other one, but can the system cope ?

Remember, they don't pay into the system. 

AE services in France are grim. 

 

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I simply can't agree that the emergency reception at your local hospital would keep you (and your child). waiting for any time if the injury were to be serious. I understand that to be defined as 'serious' would need an examination. This would have been done straight away given it was a head injury.. The health system, emergency and otherwise is very good. Always needs 'tweaking' but is very good. Parents are always 'panicking' when it comes to treatment for their children and their judgement cannot be relied on!!

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2 hours ago, ko12x2 said:

ALBF, I'm sure you were right. I hold the PSC1 and we never learned anything about head injuries, other than put in PLS (Position Latérale de sécurité; and even that's not 100% with a head injury) and await the pompiers. 

 

I don't know what PSCI is but it is obviously deficient if it doesn't cover head injuries!! Wait for the Pompiers and you could be waiting for death! Learn some basic treatments yourself!! Obviously PSC1 isn't good enough!!

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37 minutes ago, Ken said:

I simply can't agree that the emergency reception at your local hospital would keep you (and your child). waiting for any time if the injury were to be serious.

Well that is what happened. 

How do you know if a brain injury is serious or not without being examined ?

Another story for you. Same child but not born yet.

OH midway through her pregnancy (with baby ALBF) started suffering severe pains in her stomach during one afternoon. After 2 hours we called the pompiers. Thinking miscarriage and all sorts.

She was taken to hospital where she remained in a corridor for a good six/seven hours in pain without seeing anyone.

I arrived at 11 PM (I had to look after the other kids) to find her still in the corridor in pain. 

I complained that she had not been seen and that she was in a corridor with the whole world to see. Basically it was a waiting room for relatives. 

I was shouted at.

In the meantime, another woman was giving birth (no plaredual) at the other end of the corridor because there were no giving bith maternity beds.

I got it. 

So yeah, same shît in France my friends.

Stay fit and keep out of hospitals is my advice.

BTW, I took my wife home. 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, alittlebitfrench said:

Well that is what happened. 

How do you know if a brain injury is serious or not without being examined ?

Another story for you. Same child but not born yet.

OH midway through her pregnancy (with baby ALBF) started suffering severe pains in her stomach during one afternoon. After 2 hours we called the pompiers. Thinking miscarriage and all sorts.

She was taken to hospital where she remained in a corridor for a good six/seven hours in pain without seeing anyone.

I arrived at 11 PM (I had to look after the other kids) to find her still in the corridor in pain. 

I complained that she had not been seen and that she was in a corridor with the whole world to see. Basically it was a waiting room for relatives. 

I was shouted at.

In the meantime, another woman was giving birth (no plaredual) at the other end of the corridor because there were no giving bith maternity beds.

I got it. 

So yeah, same shît in France my friends.

Stay fit and keep out of hospitals is my advice.

BTW, I took my wife home. 

 

 

 

 You don't say if your child was conscious or not when the Firemen arrived or if he was conscious on arriving at the hospital. Hospitals especially emergency rooms, are used to seeing hundreds of 'emergencies' every day. What you consider to be an emergency is a routine occurrence for an experienced E.R. worker. if your child was conscious and aware then it is not going to be considered an emergency I'm afraid. To you, yes and understandably so but in reality it wasn't. Almost certainly your child wasn't given tests to see if brain damage or even concussion occurred. I may be wrong as you haven't said. Signs and symptoms are of paramount importance, particularly  with head injuries and I doubt that your child was displaying the sort of signs and symptoms associated with a sever head injury, hence no urgency.

As for the other 'emergency' You took your wife home, incredible!!!!  You leave a lot unsaid I'm afraid, I think in both cases. If your wife was as bad as you intimate why on earth leave the hospital?

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4 hours ago, Ken said:

 You don't say if your child was conscious or not when the Firemen arrived or if he was conscious on arriving at the hospital. Hospitals especially emergency rooms, are used to seeing hundreds of 'emergencies' every day. What you consider to be an emergency is a routine occurrence for an experienced E.R. worker. if your child was conscious and aware then it is not going to be considered an emergency I'm afraid. To you, yes and understandably so but in reality it wasn't. Almost certainly your child wasn't given tests to see if brain damage or even concussion occurred. I may be wrong as you haven't said. Signs and symptoms are of paramount importance, particularly  with head injuries and I doubt that your child was displaying the sort of signs and symptoms associated with a sever head injury, hence no urgency.

As for the other 'emergency' You took your wife home, incredible!!!!  You leave a lot unsaid I'm afraid, I think in both cases. If your wife was as bad as you intimate why on earth leave the hospital?

Listen Ken my dear friend.

People suffer pain in their chest and ignore it. Two days later they have a heart attack and die. 

There are certain things in life you don't mess about with. A head injury (especially a baby), pains in your chest and if you are pregnant, severe pains in your tummy. I am sure there are more types of things. You know what I mean.

Once upon a time not so long ago my wrist and a saw had an argument. The saw jumped and cut my wrist. Unknown to me the teeth of the saw cut straight through a nerve. I went to the doctor two days later complaining a little who then sent me to the emergency who then sent me straight to surgery. (It was a six hour wait in AE before I got seen BTW)

Because I was so late seeking medical attention I now have little or no feeling in half the side of my hand. If I had been a bit more proactive my hand would be normal...ish. 

On the positive side,  I can punch you in the face with my left hand and not feel a thing. You on the other hand (excuse the pun) will ?

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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Well, not wanting to get a left hander I suppose we had better come to a close!! I still think you are being too harsh regarding the medical services, my experiences are the exact opposite! One five day stay In hospital after being transported there by ambulance which, in turn, was called by a doctor who first came, and that was in the middle of the night. A couple of visits to the E.R; once after a disagreement with a chain saw and the second after a disagreement with a rather huge man!! The chain saw incident was dealt with immediately, it was rather urgent!  it was also rather messy and coincidently, not wishing to 'trump you at all', I chopped through several nerves, none of which work now of course! as for the incident with the large man, yes I was in the ER for a couple of hours waiting for treatment but then again broken bones are not often an emergency so I didn't complain; No don't ask!! 

Given, what seems, your propensity to  attracting medical incidents may I suggest again that you find a way to learn about dealing with 'emergences'. Honestly, it may save your life one day or more importantly perhaps a member of your family! 

Stay safe and forget about punching people, especially large men!!!!!

 

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On 02/04/2022 at 17:08, Ken said:

I don't know what PSCI is but it is obviously deficient if it doesn't cover head injuries!! Wait for the Pompiers and you could be waiting for death! Learn some basic treatments yourself!! Obviously PSC1 isn't good enough!!

Given that you don't know what it is, your comment is odd to sa

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On 02/04/2022 at 17:08, Ken said:

I don't know what PSCI is but it is obviously deficient if it doesn't cover head injuries!! Wait for the Pompiers and you could be waiting for death! Learn some basic treatments yourself!! Obviously PSC1 isn't good enough!!

Le certificat prévention et secours civiques de niveau 1, en abrégé PSC1, est la formation de base aux premiers secours en France.

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Your posts serve no useful purpose except to perpetuate your delusions of the importance of Windbag Wheatley's unsubstantiated assertions. When useful information is needed a link to the relevant authority is useful; but when that is called for you fall back on uninformed ignorance.

 

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