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P and O Ferries shut down


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All departures cancelled, all ships stuck in port. You can check on media but it seems that the crews were all sacked, now refusing to leave the ships. Some folk trapped on board.

You may wish to check the ownership of the company.

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Another Trade Union success story!! The mines, the Docks, The Railways the list is long and distinguished! Easy to deflect the problem by asking to check who the owners are but it is more a question of whether something is viable or not and that applies to any owner! 

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It's clear that DP world's focus is freight. P&O ferries is, unfortunately, just a tiny part of their business but it's one that's been hemorrhaging money for years. Unless someone can prove to Ahmed Bin Sulayem that it's possible to run a profitable cross channel ferry service don't expect those boats to move anytime soon.

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I worked for P&O in the 90's. In various companies/divisions. According to a numbty that used to be on this forum who is now 'god' on 'everything' on a another forum...I think he is called TW&t'.... I was a nobody.  

It was a vraiment shît company to work for then. Horrible god awful people running it. They were bad people. 

This does not surprise me one bit.

So who cares.

The UK is in the shît again freight wise mind you.

What you don't realise is that 'certain' Haz goods can't go tunnel. The lorries have to be on boats. And Dover-Calais is where most 'HAZ' JIT goods go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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3 hours ago, DaveLister said:

It's clear that DP world's focus is freight. P&O ferries is, unfortunately, just a tiny part of their business but it's one that's been hemorrhaging money for years. Unless someone can prove to Ahmed Bin Sulayem that it's possible to run a profitable cross channel ferry service don't expect those boats to move anytime soon.

Who would run a non profitable business? A madman perhaps but not any sensible person in business. The ferries, like any. business has to ; at the very least, pay its way and they are not. The Union Barons, as usual, will blame everyone from the Tories down to management and the owners but the reality is that the ferry workers are a huge liability when it comes to wages. People in the west are suckered by this minimum wage nonsense and the power of the unions. This is the outcome! No jobs!!! Sensible negotiations, what are they!!!!  Every job has its true worth!!

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All workers are a huge liability when it comes to wages. The easiest way to make a profit is to not have any staff. P&O didn't just carry passengers, as ALBF said it carried freight and freight is DP World's business. I suspect the idea is to ship directly into their own automated London Gateway bypassing the port of Dover. Of course for that they don't need passenger ferries. With the Thames Freeport opening up ( in which they also have a stake ) there'll be less need for landside staff all round. Sure, Britain might suffer some supply shortages in the meantime and popping across to France for the school holidays might end up costing more  but eventually the whole thing will be a lot more profitable for DP World. Which, as you agree Ken, is the point.

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3 minutes ago, DaveLister said:

All workers are a huge liability when it comes to wages. The easiest way to make a profit is to not have any staff. P&O didn't just carry passengers, as ALBF said it carried freight and freight is DP World's business. I suspect the idea is to ship directly into their own automated London Gateway bypassing the port of Dover. Of course for that they don't need passenger ferries. With the Thames Freeport opening up ( in which they also have a stake ) there'll be less need for landside staff all round. Sure, Britain might suffer some supply shortages in the meantime and popping across to France for the school holidays might end up costing more  but eventually the whole thing will be a lot more profitable for DP World. Which, as you agree Ken, is the point.

I do agree profit is very much the point. Which does bring us back to the passenger side of the business. It's making a loss, why keep it? I would do as the owners are doing, perhaps with a bit more tact and tenderness but the bottom line is if the workforce won't work for a wage that is comparable with making a profit then we close! The Union though would never tolerate that and as a result its members are out of a job!!

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41 minutes ago, Ken said:

I do agree profit is very much the point. Which does bring us back to the passenger side of the business. It's making a loss, why keep it? I would do as the owners are doing, perhaps with a bit more tact and tenderness but the bottom line is if the workforce won't work for a wage that is comparable with making a profit then we close! The Union though would never tolerate that and as a result its members are out of a job!!

Brexit Kenconvservative...the UK is an Island. 

We kinda of needs ships to transport freight and people across the channel !

Otherwise we will starve to death, have no industry...and not be able to go to the Dordogne for a horribleday....I mean holiday. Soorry ?

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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37 minutes ago, alittlebitfrench said:

Brexit Kenconvservative...the UK is an Island. 

We kinda of needs ships to transport freight and people across the channel !

Otherwise we will starve to death, have no industry...and not be able to go to the Dordogne for a horribleday....I mean holiday. Soorry ?

 

The solution, get rid of the unions!! Problem solved!! Anyway who wants to go to the Dordogne, with all those other Brits?  What a terrible thought!!!

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2 hours ago, alittlebitfrench said:

Brexit Kenconvservative...the UK is an Island. 

We kinda of needs ships to transport freight and people across the channel !

Otherwise we will starve to death, have no industry...and not be able to go to the Dordogne for a horribleday....I mean holiday. Soorry ?

 

Can we have the full ALBF post please !

I thought we live in the West where we can have freedom of speech.

If we can't have freedom of speech on a dying French forum....what hope does humanity have FFS !

 

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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2 hours ago, alittlebitfrench said:

Brexit Kenconvservative...the UK is an Island. 

We kinda of needs ships to transport freight and people across the channel !

Otherwise we will starve to death, have no industry...and not be able to go to the Dordogne for a horribleday....I mean holiday. Soorry ?

 

That is strange....that is not what I wrote 'in full'.

Fredeom of speach my friends. 

Otherwise........!

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11 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

This is clearly a cold business decision and likely enabled by the UK leaving the EU which ended basic workers rights protection as French P & O employees do not seem to have been affected.  

You are obviously not aware that the UK leaving the EU has not affected "basic worker's rights" in the UK in any way whatsoever.

All of the U.K. employment law that stemmed from EU law (such as the Working Time Directive) was already in effect, cut and pasted into U.K. law by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, which created the concept of "retained EU law." So in the immediate future, U.K. employment law will not change and is unaffected by the agreement.

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38 minutes ago, Harnser said:

You are obviously not aware that the UK leaving the EU has not affected "basic worker's rights" in the UK in any way whatsoever.

All of the U.K. employment law that stemmed from EU law (such as the Working Time Directive) was already in effect, cut and pasted into U.K. law by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, which created the concept of "retained EU law." So in the immediate future, U.K. employment law will not change and is unaffected by the agreement.

That was my initial thought as well but I couldn't understand why P&O were allegedly able to treat workers differently in France as the same employment rights should apply in both countries.

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53 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

That was my initial thought as well but I couldn't understand why P&O were allegedly able to treat workers differently in France as the same employment rights should apply in both countries.

Listening on radio today to an employment lawyer, there seems to be a legal vacuum where the employer is not UK based, and the ship is Cyprus flagged.

But another opinion heard was that as the seamen are UK based -  ie they do not sleep on the ship as do crews on  cruise ferries to spain etc, this apparently makes a lot of difference, I have no idea why. 

The elephant in the room to me is "Where are the Dover dockworkers and their union?" they could refuse to handle those ferries. Their union used to be the TGWU which morphed into Unite.

I just looked on the Unite website, a couple of whingeing articles about politicians causing the 800 redundancies (How?) but no news of any action.

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The suggestion (from we all know who) that the cause of all this is the Unions, is frankly laughable.

The reality is:

  • Excess capacity on Dover - Calais (don’t know about the other routes)
  • DFDS & (the newly arrived) Irish Ferries provide sufficient capacity, except perhaps in the high season
  • P&O Ferries haven’t been terribly highly regarded in recent times - by passengers
  • The economics, as stated in the above posts, speak for themselves

Having said all of that, this must amount to a  spectacular ‘own goal’ by the Company.   I can’t imagine that anybody would want to continue, or take up employment with them in the immediate future.

I simply can’t believe, not so much what they’ve done (although I massively deprecate it) but how they’ve done it.

What’s more, the paying public is going to be very nervous about booking a crossing with them.

Last thing .......... as I understand it, P&O Ferries has no connection with P&O Cruising ........... but many customers won’t understand that.  The contiguous harm that may well be done to that brand will be enormous.

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We took the bike across to Ireland about 3 years ago from Roscoff on Irish Ferries.  They had done the same thing. Kept the Irish Officers and replaced the crew with eastern Europeans.

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13 hours ago, Gardian said:

The suggestion (from we all know who) that the cause of all this is the Unions, is frankly laughable.

I don't suppose the union cautioned the employees, following the sale of the company to DP World in 2019, that by signing a Jersey based offshore 'maritime' employment contract that the inevitable could happen. They too, the unions, should accept a certain amount of culpability in this unfortunate situation.

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Well, I take your point, but I’m far from sure how the Union(s) could be seen as culpable in what has been done.

They may or may not have been less than diligent, but at the end of the proverbial day, this Company has acted in a manner which is contrary to what most of us would see as lawful, and certainly contrary to what we would all see as acceptable practice.

Finger pointing and blame aside, this is a far from satisfactory situation, with hundreds of employees out of a job. That outcome might well have been inevitable, given the current circumstances.  But ....... their former employer should be ashamed about the way this has been handled .......... but that former employer couldn’t care less.

The ‘brand’ has been blighted forever.

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