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Macron and Putin


Ken
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Below is an extract from a speech by Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary. It was at the end of quite a long article in the Telegraph and resonated with me completely. I don't trust Macron when it comes to this conflict (don't trust him about anything actually!) and think he could well undermine efforts to combat Putin. Already the French are 'knocking' Britain over the refugee situation. Just what is it with the French? I suppose I could ask the Germans!!!!!

Separately, he raised the prospect that the Russian president could be toying with Emmanuel Macron, his French counterpart, in continued discussions between the two leaders.

“I think there is no harm in someone trying to talk to President Putin. What I find interesting is every time he rings President Putin, President Putin asks for more. It’s almost as if Putin is toying with him,” said Mr Wallace.

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Britain’s emphasis on muscular deterrence has come at the expense of diplomacy. It has contributed almost nothing to peace-making efforts. When Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, met Lavrov in Moscow, their talks ended in an icy standoff.

Johnson has gratuitously undermined Macron’s Moscow initiative while Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, spoke disparagingly of a “whiff of Munich”. Meanwhile, the government has yet to enforce effective measures to curb Russian money-laundering in London.

All else aside, the Ukraine crisis has brutally underscored Britain’s diminished international influence abroad. Separated by choice from the EU, the UK is now viewed in Russia (and much of Europe) as little more than a cheerleader and errand boy for America.

When Johnson asked Biden what else the UK could do in a phone call last week, the US president replied: “We’re not going anywhere without you, pal.” That summed up Britain’s war to date. The rule of thumb for post-Brexit foreign policy: ask pol

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Britain has led the way with regards helping the Ukraine. Britain is at the forefront of aid with fighting the Russians. people here may not like it but it it is the truth. Because of Brexit they are biased and it is stupid to ignore that Britain has helped where the E.U. floundered. Britain is quite obviously influential. As for Johnson chatting to Biden, I only wish I could be as privy to their conversations as some here claim!!

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4 hours ago, NormanH said:

Johnson has gratuitously undermined Macron’s Moscow initiative

 

Really?

Macron had his audience with Putin on the 7th February.  Putin invaded Ukraine on 24th February.  The invasion is now in its eleventh day, with no sign of abating. Would you say that initiative you refer to, by Macron, is going well and to plan?

If you believe that Putin could have been persuaded by anyone, let alone Macron, to scrap his invasion ambitions, you are seriously deluded.

The way I read it was that Macron seized an opportunity to bolster his re-election chances here in France, particularly now as he has thrown his 'chapeau' into the ring. It would seem he was completely out manoeuvred and humiliated by Putin at that initiative bearing meeting.

You armchair pundits should be assessing what direction and to which nation he will have in his sights, following the flattening of Ukraine, to enable some sort of resistance to be implemented for the well-being of the rest of us.

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It' s quite disgusting, in my view, that what is happening in the Ukraine particularly with the terrible  refugee situation ; that people use the crisis to knock the U.K. government. I can only assume that they are bitter remainers and simply can't accept that they lost and are now  irrelevant,  or worse, they are Putin sympathisers. In either case they are losers.

 The U.K. is doing a magnificent job in co-ordinating and supplying the Ukraine with what it needs. Not for the first time in the history of wars in Europe is Britain leading the way.

 

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The UK is led by incompetents, Johnson is a lying ****, Truss hasn't got a brain and Patel despite her immigrant background is bordering on evil in the way she treats people wanting to come to the UK. Add in the flood of dirty Russian money into London over the past two decades and it's easy to see why Putin dismisses the UK.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

The UK is led by incompetents, Johnson is a lying ****, Truss hasn't got a brain and Patel despite her immigrant background is bordering on evil in the way she treats people wanting to come to the UK. Add in the flood of dirty Russian money into London over the past two decades and it's easy to see why Putin dismisses the UK.

 

 

But Putin isn't dismissing the U.K.! In fact he has mentioned specifically the U.K. in his threats. Just another remainer knocking the U.K. Rule Britannia.

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15 hours ago, cajal said:

 

Really?

Macron had his audience with Putin on the 7th February.  Putin invaded Ukraine on 24th February.  The invasion is now in its eleventh day, with no sign of abating. Would you say that initiative you refer to, by Macron, is going well and to plan?

If you believe that Putin could have been persuaded by anyone, let alone Macron, to scrap his invasion ambitions, you are seriously deluded.

The way I read it was that Macron seized an opportunity to bolster his re-election chances here in France, particularly now as he has thrown his 'chapeau' into the ring. It would seem he was completely out manoeuvred and humiliated by Putin at that initiative bearing meeting.

You armchair pundits should be assessing what direction and to which nation he will have in his sights, following the flattening of Ukraine, to enable some sort of resistance to be implemented for the well-being of the rest of us.

Diplomacy is essential in conflicts and Macron continues to pursue that, rather like  a negotiator in a hostage situation.

Johnson's reputation as a serial liar means that unfortunately he has no International status.

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Diplomacy is essential but we mustn't get the word mixed up with duplicity. Macron is working for an election and isn't it just a little odd that it is, as far as I'm aware,  it is only him and Putin having these discussions? Of Course there are people  gullible enough to believe that Macron isn't doing it for himself but for mankind  particularly if they can 'knife' Britain in the back into the bargain but fortunately these people are very much in the minority just as they were when the referendum decided that we leave the E.U.

Fortunately Britain has led the way. The E.U. lagged behind and Johnson is being seen to be an excellent opponent of Putin.  

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Live 
 Russia-Ukraine latest news: Vladimir Putin 'manipulating' Emmanuel Macron and West over ceasefire, says Kyiv
  •  
  • It's what is known as 'stating the bleeding obvious'!!!  Macron is so arrogant as to think he is doing something whilst all the time he is being used. Oh! What it is to have a huge ego!! Mind you there are some who believe he is doing a good job!!
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2 hours ago, Ken said:

 

 
 
Live 
 Russia-Ukraine latest news: Vladimir Putin 'manipulating' Emmanuel Macron and West over ceasefire, says Kyiv
  •  
  • It's what is known as 'stating the bleeding obvious'!!!  Macron is so arrogant as to think he is doing something whilst all the time he is being used. Oh! What it is to have a huge ego!! Mind you there are some who believe he is doing a good job!!

You should know better than anybody ? I think he is doing an essential job in keeping a channel of communication open.

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32 minutes ago, NormanH said:

You should know better than anybody ? I think he is doing an essential job in keeping a channel of communication open.

Of course you do. Anything to knock the U.K. and promote the E.U.; even if it is Macron!! Fortunately you are in a minority.

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23 hours ago, Ken said:

But Putin isn't dismissing the U.K.! In fact he has mentioned specifically the U.K. in his threats. Just another remainer knocking the U.K. Rule Britannia.

Not knocking the UK as a country just the current leadership, if you the Johnson led government is doing a good job then you need your bumps felt.

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23 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

Not knocking the UK as a country just the current leadership, if you the Johnson led government is doing a good job then you need your bumps felt.

Not knocking it as a country! What sort of statement is that? What are you 'knocking'  then, a branch of ASDA or a fish and chip shop? Johnson is doing a very good job leading in the fight against Russia. When you' knock the British government you are 'knocking' Britain.  There are enough here that do that, jealous remainers in the main who would see their country harmed rather than admit the E.U. is a failure. You sound the same.

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There is a big difference between 'the government' and 'the people' or are you suggesting that as Johnson is a liar all Brits who support him must be okay with that because they're also liars?

Truss approved of Brits going to fight in the Ukraine, do you think that's a good idea or mad?

Patel's parents were immigrants yet she doesn't want others having the same opportunity as they had, hypocritical or 'quite right too'? 

 

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A global hero who has been democratically elected president of a sovereign state that is under siege by a communist led regime attempting to expand its power and rule within the west of Europe, has chosen to deliver a live address to the seat of government of one of the oldest democratic countries in the world, this afternoon.

To me, that sends out a clear message to all comers and the rest of the world, and I'm not even British.

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1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

There is a big difference between 'the government' and 'the people' or are you suggesting that as Johnson is a liar all Brits who support him must be okay with that because they're also liars?

Truss approved of Brits going to fight in the Ukraine, do you think that's a good idea or mad?

Patel's parents were immigrants yet she doesn't want others having the same opportunity as they had, hypocritical or 'quite right too'? 

 

It appears  to have escaped your notice that 'the people' voted for this government and voted by a huge majority. That must tell the stupidest of people something! Truss giving approval or otherwise is irrelevant, if people want to fight that is their prerogative. To answer your question I see nothing wrong with what she said.

Saying Patel doesn't want others to have the same opportunities as her parents did is patently ridiculous. She is a Minister of State working for Britain, not The Ukraine, Afghanistan or Russia. She has to make decisions that idiots find not to their liking, usually because they are socialists simply looking to critique a Tory Government.

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2 hours ago, Ken said:

It appears  to have escaped your notice that 'the people' voted for this government and voted by a huge majority. That must tell the stupidest of people something! Truss giving approval or otherwise is irrelevant, if people want to fight that is their prerogative. To answer your question I see nothing wrong with what she said.

Saying Patel doesn't want others to have the same opportunities as her parents did is patently ridiculous. She is a Minister of State working for Britain, not The Ukraine, Afghanistan or Russia. She has to make decisions that idiots find not to their liking, usually because they are socialists simply looking to critique a Tory Government.

I don't see myself as a socialist just a normal, rational person who can see that the UK is run by idiots at the moment and nothing I can say will convince you that I might be right.  

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39 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

I don't see myself as a socialist just a normal, rational person who can see that the UK is run by idiots at the moment and nothing I can say will convince you that I might be right.  

I find in life that how others perceive you is quite important!! Particularly when you simply say the U.K. is run by idiots!! If you were talking about the local tea shop it might be valid but a country, well as I said, how you are perceived!!

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47 minutes ago, Ken said:

I find in life that how others perceive you is quite important!! Particularly when you simply say the U.K. is run by idiots!! If you were talking about the local tea shop it might be valid but a country, well as I said, how you are perceived!!

I could spend hours debating with you but what's the point, the views you hold are so entrenched that I'd be wasting my time and yours.

For example, the UK government's refusal to relax the immigration visa application rules for Ukrainians on purely humanitarian grounds has been widely criticised including by some within the Tory party yet you say Patel 'has to make decisions that idiots find not to their liking', is everyone else an idiot or just maybe the government have got this wrong?

Here's another, the Defence Secretary, senior armed forces chiefs and even No.10 have said Truss was wrong to back Brits going to fight in Ukraine (which may even be illegal) yet you don't have a problem with it.

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