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Xmas greetings


anotherbanana
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2 hours ago, Gluestick said:

As always, Ken, you are endeavouring to conflate an argument.

Since US draftees had thorough medicals before serving; and since the average length of service, in theatre was 2 years, then logically, it must follow that any young fit person who ate increased levels of fat for two years would be suffering from advanced cardio-vascular disease?

Well, if all they ate was lard, then perhaps; although I would suggest it would tend to be thrown up and exit the other end too at a rate of knots!

However, what they did eat can be seen, here:

https://www.historynet.com/gourmet-grunts-1968-70.htm

Unless there was another cause.

Eating fat and being fat (i.e. obese) are two disparate issues.

However, the original point was surely this?

"No actual link to eating fat and heart attacks, sadly that misinformation should have been laid to rest and is from the good old US of A. It was referred to as the french paradox, how can they eat so much fat and cheese but have low incidence of heart disease. Or the shorter version, how America got it so wrong, down to a bloke called Ancel Keys. "

As a point of reference, early in my life I suffered an MI (Myocardial Infarction: a Coronary if you like).

I was extremely fortunate and received truly excellent early care and then treatment by probably the top Cardiologist in the UK at the time, at the top London hospital, London Chest.

My GP was a good friend and assisted me with research into,"WHY?".

I could tell you however no doubt I would be "Cherry Picking" again!

You of course, were not...

Interesting that this in depth clinical study mentions both Korean war and Vietnam war PM heart/vascular evaluations; but not fatty diets?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812791/

 

And as ever I'm being accused of something I'm not guilty of!  The diet of the young men wasn't an issue when they were called up they were young, fit and 'healthy', except they weren't were they? The autopsies proved it! No conflation!   Advanced heart disease was present in the bodies brought home.  The only logical cause was their diet, before , and during their service. Of course eating fat and being fat are two different issues. Eating anything and being fat is also two different issues. The whole point. though is that being fat is bad and the only way to become fat is to eat too much. It is well established that fat people are more at risk in any health situation. With your heart attack, you don't say if you were fat. You don't say if being fat was a possible factor. I'm not cherry picking but stating the obvious. 

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Hooooo Ken you're way off beam, there.  The generalisations are verging on the comic.  For a start, the definitions of 'fat' 'obese' or 'overweight' are entirely arbitrary, based on an ideal, one-size-fits-all standard that doesn't take any account of individual circumstances, ethnicity or genetics.  They seem to be based on the current aesthetic model which is a nonsense.  For a start, the height/weight/ body mass ratios don't take any account of bone density or muscle mass.  

As for greed being the main cause of obesity, that simply isn't true.  Haven't we all known examples of people who could scoff vast amounts of all the 'wrong' foods and still stay stick-thin? And others who were by no means greedy but only have to look at a profiterole to gain 2 kgs 😄  I'd say the biggest factor is physical activity and a switched 'on' or 'off' metabolism.  It's not necessarily a genetic thing, either.  I've seen at first hand the 'programming' of French friends' children, from the age of 5, resulting in a sensible attitude to diet and a pattern for life that ensures an active, effective metabolism. Taken in conjunction with a fair amount of physical activity, I'm convinced that that is the key to the 'French paradox'.

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NOISETTE: If you want 'comic' lets dissect your post! Fat, Obese and overweight are well defined. Do a little research and you will find the % of fat for male and female that is the considered norm. Above that norm you move into overweight, fat Then obese. Ethnicity-Genetics has no real relationship with being fat. Samoans are huge people , possibly genetically fat but still fat!!! Bone density, muscle mass have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with fat. Different material completely and subject to different parameters.

As for greed: We are taking about fat people!! Thin people are not fat, surely you have noticed? I don't know of anyone and I bet you don't either who knows of someone stick thin yet eats like an elephant on a daily basis.. We can all eat a huge meal or two from time to time without becoming obese! As for the nonsense of looking at food and getting fat, indeed it is nonsense.

You would say that the biggest factor is physical activity! Wrong again: Incidentally you can't switch on/ off your metabolism!! You probably mean a temporarily increased metabolism when taking exercise.  Do some research and you will find out about things like calories in fat, protein and carbohydrate which predominately are used in exercise in varying proportions, fat being the last and slowest to be used!!!. To give you a taste, pun intended. To lose a pound of fat you would need to travel on foot without eating for a minimum of thirty miles. Do the research and you will find the value in calories in fat and the calories used in exercise; You will then see that exercise is a non starter.  Being fat isn't genetic. It is eating too much!! Most cases of people arguing against the basic precept that eating is the sole reason for being fat and obesity are , I found in my career, fat people!!! No matter how many times you tell most fat people that being fat could well kill them they ignore it, it doesn't exist!! Instead they go off on ridiculous tangents to try and justify why they are fat, and it's never their fault!! Incidentally I don't believe in the 'French paradox' at all. The French population is increasingly becoming fat; It is a matter of record

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Well I thought I'd look in again and see if the forum had turned over a new leaf for the new year and become a pleasant, friendly place for banter.

Noooooo.....  more of the same old, same old. Even the Xmas greetings thread has turned into the usual opinionated outpourings, how ironic is that ! 

Happy New Year to Noisette. Idun, Gardian and other old-timers that I used to enjoy chatting with in the days when this forum used to be a nice place to visit. 

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1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Well I thought I'd look in again and see if the forum had turned over a new leaf for the new year and become a pleasant, friendly place for banter.

Noooooo.....  more of the same old, same old. Even the Xmas greetings thread has turned into the usual opinionated outpourings, how ironic is that ! 

Happy New Year to Noisette. Idun, Gardian and other old-timers that I used to enjoy chatting with in the days when this forum used to be a nice place to visit. 

Happy new year ET....

You keep well my best forum mate. 

BTW...there is no French forum that is happy at the moment. Even the green one. Or the blue one. 

 

I blame Macron 😃

 

 

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5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Well I thought I'd look in again and see if the forum had turned over a new leaf for the new year and become a pleasant, friendly place for banter.

Noooooo.....  more of the same old, same old.

Hmm, so the "same ol' situation" then?  I guess you consider all of us who remain to be no better than a "Mötley Crüe".

See what I did there? 😁

 

 

 

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