Jump to content

What Has Gone Wrong With Society?


Recommended Posts

48 minutes ago, Gluestick said:

Ken; my own experience of social workers is that all too often, they are Lefty Liberal Do-Gooder types who read Sociology at a pretend university and early on decided such moronic conclusions that criminals only become so because they suffered a deprived childhood.

The genus social worker, believe in apologism: i.e. "It's not his/her fault because he/she was drunk, under the influence of illegal drugs etc at the time of the offence and so on.

Now if they had have read Psychology instead of the mainly nonsense of Lefty Sociology, then perhaps they would recognise any society throws up Sociopaths, Psychopaths and etc.

A most interesting book to read is titled Mind Change, written by Baroness Susan Greenfield; who is one of the World's foremost authorities on how the brain works: she is a Neural Scientist not a doctor.

Her inescapable conclusions are that constant exposure to mass media, the Internet etc have re-wired the neural pathways and explain how and why younger people suffer increasing incidence of behavioural problems.

The dire and growing problems associated with proscribed drugs (Skunk in particular) are clearly yet a further root cause.

 

As I have sort of hinted at!! I had dealings with both social workers and probation officers when I was a kid growing up in the east end of London. I was around 12 years old and even at that 'tender' age I realised that these people didn't have much of a clue about what drives others. Most of the time they were just ticking boxes and asked the same stupid questions every week. I quickly understood how easy it was to manipulate them and of course did so. I have to say though that even today when I look back I often wonder whether they were just dim or so inured by the constant exposure to low life that in the end they just couldn't be bothered, I'm still not sure! Almost certainly there are some who are good at the work but in the main………..!

I'm not too sure either if their 'leanings' have anything to do with it. Almost certainly they were 'of the left' and probably blamed the more well off for most of the 'poor' peoples troubles but their political persuasion doesn't answer the question of how they can be so blind in their dealings with scumbags. Perhaps they suffer all sorts of constraints regarding the law, I don't really know, but their enquiries can only  carry so much weight before a court order is needed to enquire further and I know the courts are reluctant in that respect!

Those 'professionals' aside the person I feared most and instilled in me what was right and wrong was my mother!! That is what , in my view, is the major problem with children and families today. The use of even the word 'discipline' brings out a rush of ludicrous accusations that idiot parents listen too. I'm afraid I have little respect for the modern day parent. Authorities, Police, teachers and yes, even welfare workers can only do so much. The real responsibility lies with parents and all to often they absolve themselves and simply blame 'society' or the government!!!  End of rant!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ken said:

Those 'professionals' aside the person I feared most and instilled in me what was right and wrong was my mother!! That is what , in my view, is the major problem with children and families today. The use of even the word 'discipline' brings out a rush of ludicrous accusations that idiot parents listen too. I'm afraid I have little respect for the modern day parent. Authorities, Police, teachers and yes, even welfare workers can only do so much. The real responsibility lies with parents and all to often they absolve themselves and simply blame 'society' or the government!!!  End of rant!!!!!!

Same here! Mum was the feared pillar of authority and conduct; her favourite admonishment was "letting down the family!"

Not a "Rant": I agree totally.

In the late 1990s, I was approached by a good friend who was a county councillor and asked to become a Co-Opted County Council secondary school governor. It was then a problem school. There was little or no discipline and if an unusual teacher tried, parents would roll up and threaten to "do" him/her! Perhaps my wake up moment was when a pupil assaulted a member of staff with a baseball bat: and the pupil was a girl!

BTW: out of a governing body of 40 it took just two of us and determination to sort it out! It has moved from a place where "Nice" parents refused to send their kids: to a school where parents are now queuing up...

A further sobering moment was sitting in a magistrates court for a morning and observing how the young scum treated the whole matter as a big joke! I had been approached with the suggestion of becoming a JP: I passed as it was obviously an utter waste of time. And that's quite a few years ago, now.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prime minister Johnson has announced a National Review into the circumstances leading up to the death of this poor boy and I also read that the sentencing recommendation for the two murderers has been elevated up to the Attorney General on the grounds that the sentences are felt to be too lenient. Hopefully the outcome of these two enquiries will produce the correct results required for justice to be seen to be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not my favourite publication, however, this DM article does provide significant insight, perhaps?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10269281/Emma-Tustins-ex-partner-gives-disturbing-insight-child-killer-convicted-murder.html

Poor little lovely poppet: not only raging psychopaths for father and step mother but another raging lunatic for his natural birth mother.

 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m quite disturbed by this thread.

The first thing to say is that neither I, nor any of my family, nor anybody that I know is or has been a social worker.  Thus no vested interest.

This must be one of the most difficult jobs to carry out and for Ken to (more than) imply that those in the profession are ‘at the bottom of the ladder’ both intellectually and in terms of capability, is quite insulting to them and to me as a neutral party.

How many households with young children are there in the UK?  I’m guessing - 5M?  The number of awful cases are happily few.  Of course, there’ll sadly be more, but most young children live in happy, loving homes.

Sadly, there are some cases from time to time, which (rightly) produce National coverage and horror.  Errors may well have been made, but nobody is perfect.  The case workers in this particular situation will probably live with this for the rest of their lives.  

We should remember who committed the crime / atrocity.  It wasn’t the case worker, nor the police officer who investigated the murder, both of whom are so often accused of ‘failing’.  It was the guilty party.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Gardian said:

I’m quite disturbed by this thread.

The first thing to say is that neither I, nor any of my family, nor anybody that I know is or has been a social worker.  Thus no vested interest.

This must be one of the most difficult jobs to carry out and for Ken to (more than) imply that those in the profession are ‘at the bottom of the ladder’ both intellectually and in terms of capability, is quite insulting to them and to me as a neutral party.

How many households with young children are there in the UK?  I’m guessing - 5M?  The number of awful cases are happily few.  Of course, there’ll sadly be more, but most young children live in happy, loving homes.

Sadly, there are some cases from time to time, which (rightly) produce National coverage and horror.  Errors may well have been made, but nobody is perfect.  The case workers in this particular situation will probably live with this for the rest of their lives.  

We should remember who committed the crime / atrocity.  It wasn’t the case worker, nor the police officer who investigated the murder, both of whom are so often accused of ‘failing’.  It was the guilty party.

Of course the subject is disturbing. Children being murdered is highly emotive. Having no knowledge of anything to do with social work yet offering an opinion other than it must be a' difficult job to carry out' is ridiculously understated. You have no knowledge but feel insulted by  my comments, presumably even when I said "almost certainly there are some who are good at their work" but you choose to pick and choose! Intellectually and capability: This isn't the first incident of its kind and won't be the last. How intellectual and capable do you have to be to see what is in front of you? You say 'Some cases from time to time' as if this is rare!! Is the world you live in so rarified that you can so casually dismiss this as almost a one off? Perhaps your political leanings colour your views! You may, in your protected world feel disturbed by this thread because of this one incident and the criticism the Social services is suffering but your liberal forgiveness of Social services, I doubt, is shared by many.   

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Gardian said:

I’m quite disturbed by this thread.

The first thing to say is that neither I, nor any of my family, nor anybody that I know is or has been a social worker.  Thus no vested interest.

This must be one of the most difficult jobs to carry out and for Ken to (more than) imply that those in the profession are ‘at the bottom of the ladder’ both intellectually and in terms of capability, is quite insulting to them and to me as a neutral party.

How many households with young children are there in the UK?  I’m guessing - 5M?  The number of awful cases are happily few.  Of course, there’ll sadly be more, but most young children live in happy, loving homes.

Sadly, there are some cases from time to time, which (rightly) produce National coverage and horror.  Errors may well have been made, but nobody is perfect.  The case workers in this particular situation will probably live with this for the rest of their lives.  

We should remember who committed the crime / atrocity.  It wasn’t the case worker, nor the police officer who investigated the murder, both of whom are so often accused of ‘failing’.  It was the guilty party.

Gardian: did you look at the statistical analysis I posted earlier in this thread?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303514/child-cruelty-abuse-in-england-and-wales-uk-y-on-y/

Have you followed the appalling information regarding the Northern (UK) Grooming and Rape cases and the recent admissions by both Social Services and the Police Authority on their repeated failures to take any action?

Do you remember the dreadful death of pretty dear little girl Victoria Climbié?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Victoria_Climbié

Also:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/28/councils-failing-children-at-risk-ofsted-social-care

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, cajal said:

Perhaps THIS mental health social worker is the type of person Ken is referring to?

A masters degree in social work!! Presumably her thesis was on trajectory and impact of molecules of alcohol on a human cranium!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ken said:

Of course the subject is disturbing. Children being murdered is highly emotive. Having no knowledge of anything to do with social work yet offering an opinion other than it must be a' difficult job to carry out' is ridiculously understated. You have no knowledge but feel insulted by  my comments, presumably even when I said "almost certainly there are some who are good at their work" but you choose to pick and choose! Intellectually and capability: This isn't the first incident of its kind and won't be the last. How intellectual and capable do you have to be to see what is in front of you? You say 'Some cases from time to time' as if this is rare!! Is the world you live in so rarified that you can so casually dismiss this as almost a one off? Perhaps your political leanings colour your views! You may, in your protected world feel disturbed by this thread because of this one incident and the criticism the Social services is suffering but your liberal forgiveness of Social services, I doubt, is shared by many.   

Hmmm.  You do get quite angry, don’t you?  Oh, and you know nothing about my politics.

Have you ever considered Anger Management Therapy?  I’m led to believe that it can be quite helpful for people like you.

My last word on this subject (but it won’t be yours - it never is) is to say that my point was that perhaps we should remember that the perpetrators of this (and other) despicable crimes are the real guilty parties.  The danger is that we end up labelling the social workers as the murderers.

It’s obvious that case workers in this situation were deceived and probably ought to have been less accepting of the excuses being given.  Bad people though are often quite manipulative and convincing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Gardian said:

It’s obvious that case workers in this situation were deceived and probably ought to have been less accepting of the excuses being given.  Bad people though are often quite manipulative and convincing.

Spot on, Gardian.

Psychopaths particularly are often quite charming and believable.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Gardian said:

Hmmm.  You do get quite angry, don’t you?  Oh, and you know nothing about my politics.

Have you ever considered Anger Management Therapy?  I’m led to believe that it can be quite helpful for people like you.

My last word on this subject (but it won’t be yours - it never is) is to say that my point was that perhaps we should remember that the perpetrators of this (and other) despicable crimes are the real guilty parties.  The danger is that we end up labelling the social workers as the murderers.

It’s obvious that case workers in this situation were deceived and probably ought to have been less accepting of the excuses being given.  Bad people though are often quite manipulative and convincing.

Angry, not at all. You simply try and deflect from what you said, which was quite dreadful in its dismissive way. The case workers saw bruising on the child and did nothing, that doesn't fit with your liberal view of the social services though does it? No one is labelling them murderers, more of your nonsense. They were incompetent to the point of negligence but again, that doesn't fit with your narrative does it?. You are wrong also about how I see your politics. You are as transparent as a piece of glass. . Frustrating isn't it when you are so easily read? I'm afraid your deflective nonsense cannot cover for your earlier post!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ken and Gardian: might I please suggest that you exchange your views by Private Message?

When threads become contentious and heated, this can often finish up in a "Flame War".

Owing to the very sad and upsetting nature of this topic, it would be a great pity, IMHO, for the Mod to lock this thread too, since clearly, if there are problems with any nation state's child protection services, abilities and care, then something needs urgently to be done. And the volition can only emerge from normal concerned people, not politicos mainly concerned with playing party politics.

On a side issue, I was pleased today to learn that at long last, care homes in the UK are going to go under the microscope: and about time, too!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Post the Victoria Climbie tragedy, the social care manuals went from one or two volumes to around 7 or 8. Clearly they still havent understood but a grand parents grip on their grandchild raises a bruise and all hell brakes loose! That is what happend to friends when to prevent the child stepping off the pavement the bruise was spotted by well meaning social workers.

Edited by Teapot1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The murderer has received a paltry 25 years—hardly life.  The mother has received 8 years, just slightly over half the maximum of 14 years, for allowing and participating in a murder.

Meanwhile, a child is dead and the father of the baby's mother took his own life, believed to be unable to come to terms with the horrific offences his daughter allowed the murderer to commit on his grandchild.

Make your own opinions on the justice system that oversaw this trial.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There we different views expressed earlier in this post, reference the ability and focus of social workers.

Hm...

Drilling down further into this appalling matter:-

Smith turned 18 a month after Star was born, and her family said she was very immature for her age. She was still playing with dolls when she was 16, favouring lifelike models that she would wrap up when it got cold. She grew up in a chaotic house with her single-parent mum and various siblings.

After her arrest a psychologist assessed her as being in the bottom 2% of intelligence. The psychologist said she was “abnormally compliant” and “abnormally prone to going along with what an authority figure is telling her to do”.

Savannah Brockhill, who became her on-off girlfriend, was one such figure, the prosecution argued. Eight years older, she left school at 10 and had hidden her bisexuality from most of her family until she discussed it in the witness box. A keen amateur boxer, she hoped to compete in the Olympics but got injured and worked as a carer and later a security guard.

The couple met in the Sun pub in Bradford, where Brockhill worked as a bouncer. Their tempestuous relationship began in November 2019, around the time Smith split up with Hobson.

Before long, Smith’s friends noticed her further losing interest in Star and becoming “obsessed” with Brockhill, spending hours and hours on the phone to her."

Surely there ought to have been cause for concern, for social services?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/star-hobson-victim-of-an-immature-mother-and-her-violent-partner

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/star-hobson-killing-timeline

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There were different views that's for sure.I don't see too many comments now defending social services. People who work in social services , are, in the main, the bottom of the 'food chain' 'Funny' degrees in all sorts of subjects and an even 'funnier'  perception of the world and the dross that inhabit it. No doubt there are some who work well but by and large it is a dysfunctional organisation and always has been. The sad truth is that it will continue. These recent atrocities regarding children is nothing new. It has always gone on it's just at the moment it is the 'flavour of the month' for the press to get hold of.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote: "hese recent atrocities regarding children is nothing new. It has always gone on it's just at the moment it is the 'flavour of the month' for the press to get hold of.   "

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303514/child-cruelty-abuse-in-england-and-wales-uk-y-on-y/

Did you view this, Ken? And if so how do you co-relate your statement against the exponential rise in such child abuse?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I did and I would have thought that, if correct, an increase of just over 2 thousand on the previous year, isn't a gigantic increase. The problem with statistics is that they can be manipulated to suit any argument as I'm sure you know. Given that there were over 21 thousand the year before, according to the statistics, rather supports what I said about child cruelty has always been going on! Given that in some countries, the U.K. included I think! If you smack a child it can be deemed child cruelty, many people think differently but it is the law and would enter the statistics as an offence against a child. There are lies and there are statistics!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...