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This is just plain wrong. It is wrong on so many levels.


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Please calm down, everyone and at the very least be civil and polite.

This is a topic fraught with strong and often diametrically opposing views; however, surely, that is what debate is about?

Perhaps a gentle apology or two might be in order, here?

 

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Up to 30 died today in a rubber boat setting out from Loon Plage, close to Dunkirk. It seems that the weather is turning and that the police surveillance further south may have caused the passers to tale their victims further north, with a longer crossing time and perhaps different, more difficult currents.

Very, very sad this is but not a surprise; just look at the numbers that have died in the Med. One hopes that it brings a real solution will be found and preferably the imprisonment of the people behind this terrible traffic.

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Natacha Bouchart, the mayor of Calais said: "This is the fault of Boris Johnson who is forcing our country to endure this set-up because he doesn't have the courage himself to assume responsibilities in his country."

No doubt someone believes her!! When in doubt blame the Brits!

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Bouchart is a fool.

The core problem is that the damned EU, thanks to Schengen, utterly fails to correctly police its borders.

Many times I have been in Calais over the past ten years or so, the place has illegal migrants wandering all over the place.

Last time I looked at a map, I couldn't spot any border between France and Africa?

 

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The French will blame the Brits; the Brits will blame the French but the people trafficking will continue. For my pennyworth there are several points of blame. The E.U. for not policing its borders properly and not offering the sort of help to countries in the front line i.e. Italy, Greece and Spain to stop the illegals from landing and not having a solid plan to repatriate those that do. France is patently culpable as it is doing little or nothing to stop the illegal traffic across the Channel.  All the N.G.Os who offer succour to the legal immigrants and sustain them whilst they try and get into Britain are contributing to this misery. Back to the E.U. : open borders between countries, it has been shown many times it is a bad policy. Finally Britain. A masterclass in attracting every freeloader on the planet. It's policies concerning welfare are far too generous across the board. Will it all change though, I doubt it. I'm afraid the woke world we live in today forbids any sort of real discipline regarding law and order so, everyone just has to put up with it!!!!

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  • Between January 2020 and May 2021 91% of people arriving after crossing the Channel came from just ten countries where human rights abuses and persecution are common. These include Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Eritrea and Yemen.
  • For the top 10 countries of origin arriving by small boat, 61% of initial decisions made in the 18 months to June 2021 would have resulted in refugee protection being granted. This compares to the grant rate of 52% for decisions made for all nationalities in the same period.
  • Many of the nationalities crossing the Channel have an even higher likelihood of being granted status. We found that for Syrians the grant rate is likely to be 88%, for Eritreans 84%, for Sudanese and those from Yemen 70%, and for Iranians 67%.
  • Following a an initial refusal of an asylum claim 59% of appeals are likely be allowed for the top 10 countries of origin for people crossing the Channel, compared to 46% for appeals allowed for all countries.
  • There are extremely limited alternative ‘safe routes’ available for many of the top nationalities crossing the Channel. The UK did not resettle a single person from Kuwait, Yemen or Vietnam in the period January 2020 to May 2021 and only one person from Iran was resettled.

Source

https://media.refugeecouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/16095953/Channel-crossings-and-asylum-outcomes-November-2021.pdf

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On radio 4 this morning, following the mass drowning, there was a spokesperson for the Calais Organisation.  I cannot prove what she said was true, but I did find it interesting.  According to her, only 3% of those who reach Europe come up to France to get across to the UK, the rest seek asylum in other European countries.

Secondly, the drive to get to the UK is due to the fact that asylum can only claimed once you are in Britain.  Perhaps the French could "lend" part of Calais to the UK so that they can be processed on (diplomatic) UK soil before they get to the UK and disappear into the system.  Those that do still come across could then be legitimately taken back to Calais.  I understand the those who voted for Brexit also voted to get rid of the right to return these people back to Europe!

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Who on earth would sit back and watch pregnant woman and young kids (and others) get on an inflatable dingy in freezing weather to cross the channel ?

Well the police did yesterday and many days before that.

It seems another boat left this morning. One day after yesterdays events.

This loss of life was always going to happen sooner or later. 

These boats can be stopped. This situation can be sorted out if we had humans running the show.

But we don't have humans running the show.

We are as much at fault for voting in the likes of Macron and Boris. The EU are no better.

Boris screwed the UK with his Brexit shît. 

Macron wants the UK to pay and suffer as much as possible for voting brexit. 

It seems that a few migrants drowing in the channel to acheive this is fair game.

Macron could stop all this tomorrow. But he won't.

I wonder if all the licences for the French fishing boats were granted, this migrant business in the channel would stop ?

 

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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Surely, the very first dynamic to address is People Smuggling?

The EU is awash (collectively) with security and intelligence agencies: Britain has MI5 and SIS: and then there is Interpol.

(Except: "Emirati General Ahmed Nasser Al Raisi was elected following three rounds of voting during which he received 68.9 percent of votes cast by member countries, Interpol said in a statement. He is accused of torturing suspects"

"Istanbul (AFP) – An Emirati general accused of torture was elected president of Interpol Thursday, despite the concerns of human rights organisations who fear the agency will be at risk of exploitation by repressive regimes.

The decision follows generous funding by the United Arab Emirates for the Lyon, France-based body and accusations Abu Dhabi has abused Interpol’s system of so-called “red notices” for wanted suspects to persecute political dissidents.")

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

It cannot be beyond these collective skills and resources to at least reduce the traffic in human beings?

Only just recently, a gang of people smugglers, based in London were rounded up and arrested: they are Albanians. Nasty violent people, apparently. Albania, of course, is awash with criminal gangs.

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2 hours ago, Lehaut said:

 

Secondly, the drive to get to the UK is due to the fact that asylum can only claimed once you are in Britain.

Not correct, Lehaut. The traditional method was for would be asylum seekers to pitch up at an embassy or consular office of the nation state in which they sought safety and apply there.

It was, of course rather different post WWII with all the DPPs, however that was exceptional.

 

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2 hours ago, alittlebitfrench said:

Boris screwed the UK with his Brexit shît. 

 

He certainly did, ALBF!

And there is one of the problems, herein. Macron is conflating the fishing rights crap with the illegal migrant situation; plus, of course his ongoing threats to shut down electricity supplies to Jersey etc.

Still, as the so sad drownings this time took place on the French side of La Manche, I fear it is a "Houston; we have a problem!"  for the little twerp.

The other dire problems have been created by do-gooding, bleeding heart NGOs. IMHO they are nothing better than anarchists and thus criminals themselves since they are assisting people to break the law.

 

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Those referred to as "Migrants" are people whose lives have the same value as that of the British immigrants in France 
who like to call themselves 'expats'  huff and puff about the situation.

No man is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every man
is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine;
if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe
is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as
well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine
owne were; any mans death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankinde;
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

MEDITATION XVII
Devotions upon Emergent Occasions
John Donne 
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Well, Norman, it was pretty damned lucky that England was indeed an island when the Spanish Armada tried to invade; and dear old Nap. And then there was a certain Corporal A Hitler...

It is a common meme, today, by those lacking much of a brain cell, to accept the "No Borders!" nonsense.

It is wondrous to be deeply altruistic. Unfortunately, today, far too many humans determine that kindness means weakness.

In modern Western socio-economies, society have sort of evolved to create a vast series of benefits and simultaneous obligations: such include taxation and paying for your little corner.

The Do-Gooders would have the UK (and other) governments favour incomers and neglect indigenous residents. Unfortunately, the UK now faces another Winter of Discontent: many elderly people (far too many IMHO) are now already grappling with the simple conundrum of how to survive: heat or eat? Many will die from Hypothermia: in the 21st siecle; whilst far too many contemplate purchasing yet another bigger yacht.

The present political argument between Bozo the Clown and the MPs concerning old aged care is I feel rather significant.

Surely charity begins at home?

Welcoming and taking care of others less fortunate is very laudable; all provided one has firstly, provide comfort and support to many who fought in WWII and thereafter; plus those who have contributed to the nation state.

Am I callous and uncaring? I don't think so; otherwise, probably, I wouldn't have given so much of my time and cash to setting up the county branch of UNICEF in the early 1970s and other charitable activities.

However, that was a wholly different UNICEF to today's joke. But then the UN is a complete farce, now.

 

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4 hours ago, NormanH said:
Those referred to as "Migrants" are people whose lives have the same value as that of the British immigrants in France 
who like to call themselves 'expats'  huff and puff about the situation.

No man is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every man
is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine;
if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe
is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as
well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine
owne were; any mans death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankinde;
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

MEDITATION XVII
Devotions upon Emergent Occasions
John Donne 

Well I'm not an illegal immigrant to France but these people are illegal immigrants to the u.K. and whilst their lives may be just as valuable as mine the difference is that I live here legally.  Anyone who cannot differentiate between right and wrong deliberately or for some wokish reason has another agenda!. To pontificate about a subject yet to avoid the truth is a disgrace.

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Smugglers shot a scared migrant in the kneecaps after he refused to board a boat on the same night 27 people died trying to cross the English Channel. 
Volunteers in the Calais jungle migrant camp rushed to the aid of a 20-year-old man who was “quickly losing a lot of blood” after a smuggler became frustrated at his refusal to board the vessel and drew a gun on him. 
The smuggler felt he had “lost out on easy money,” volunteers said, as the gangs are believed to only receive the full fee for transporting migrants once they have arrived in the UK. The assailant is on the run, according to French media reports. 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/25/bit-like-drowning-scene-film-titanic/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=1db8212c2a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_11_26_07_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-1db8212c2a-190801596

(Sorry about the font - tried to change it but didn't work)

 

Edited by Harnser
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 Smugglers shot a scared migrant in the kneecaps after he refused to board a boat on the same night 27 people died trying to cross the English Channel.
Volunteers in the Calais jungle migrant camp rushed to the aid of a 20-year-old man who was “quickly losing a lot of blood” after a smuggler became frustrated at his refusal to board the vessel and drew a gun on him.
The smuggler felt he had “lost out on easy money,” volunteers said, as the gangs are believed to only receive the full fee for transporting migrants once they have arrived in the UK. The assailant is on the run, according to French media reports.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/25/bit-like-drowning-scene-film-titanic/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=1db8212c2a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_11_26_07_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-1db8212c2a-190801596

(Sorry about the font - tried to change it but didn't work)

Sorted for you, Harnser. Whenever you encounter such problems, simply copy the text, paste into Notepad, re-copy and past into the body of your post, prior to posting. Notepad dumps any annoying formatting.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Ken said:

Well I'm not an illegal immigrant to France but these people are illegal immigrants to the u.K. and whilst their lives may be just as valuable as mine the difference is that I live here legally.  Anyone who cannot differentiate between right and wrong deliberately or for some wokish reason has another agenda!. To pontificate about a subject yet to avoid the truth is a disgrace.

So says Mr Pompous Windbag himself: The man full of opinions based on unsubstantiated assertion, who never posts anything helpful or useful. This whole thread is a disgrace, both in the lack of compassion and common humanity of many comments, and for the elementary errors of reasoning that abound. It has sickened me and like several other posters I will be taking a break from this Forum. Good luck to anyone who needs help with life in France and asks people such as Ken.

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