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Drug dealers start riot?


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I read in my daily paper here in Nantes about drug related street crime every day (or seems like it).  Only this week they have confiscated 350kg of drugs and people have been shot at or had their lives made a misery by the gangs taking over their streets, parks or apartment blocks.  But the question as you quite rightly pose is what to do about it.

The lower level people don't have anything to take away (money, possessions, housing etc) only their liberty.  The amounts of money involved probably keeps the authorities away from the upper level dealers.   

Don't think anyone has a quick or indeed long term answer other then levelling up society so individuals have some degree of self worth.

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So, according to your logic, as I am amazed at the number of people who drink or use their mobile phones when driving, the answer to those problems is to legalise them.

Then we'll be able to improve our driving experience, as they say, by trying to avoid drunken druggies watching Youtube carp on their phones while driving 2 metres behind our rear ends or coming down the wrong side towards us. What fun.

Edited by ssomon
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1 hour ago, ssomon said:

So, according to your logic, as I am amazed at the number of people who drink or use their mobile phones when driving, the answer to those problems is to legalise them.

Then we'll be able to improve our driving experience, as they say, by trying to avoid drunken druggies watching Youtube carp on their phones while driving 2 metres behind our rear ends or coming down the wrong side towards us. What fun.

People who drink/use their mobile phones when driving will continue to do so if it is legal or not.

People who take drugs will continue to do so if they are legal or not.

The majority of people who take 'drugs' are harmless. The ones who are not harmless are the ones that supply them.

Why is processed food legal ? 

If you want to find the most potent killer on this planet both in terms of its ill effect on humans but also the environment......it tis processed food.

But we don't ban it. 

The drugs are not your problem. 

 

 

Edited by alittlebitfrench
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1 hour ago, alittlebitfrench said:

People who drink/use their mobile phones when driving will continue to do so if it is legal or not.

People who take drugs will continue to do so if they are legal or not.

The majority of people who take 'drugs' are harmless. The ones who are not harmless are the ones that supply them.

Why is processed food legal ? 

If you want to find the most potent killer on this planet both in terms of its ill effect on humans but also the environment......it tis processed food.

But we don't ban it. 

The drugs are not your problem.

 

Flawed response.

More people would drink/use their mobile phones when driving if it were legal.

More people would take drugs and drive as well if they were legal.

Many people who take 'drugs' are not harmless. The couple who broke into our house (we saw them in court) and stole all our valuables (which were never recovered, as they had sold them for a fix or two) were not harmless.

Neither was the one who broke into our shop, stole tools and equipment and peed and shat all over the floor harmless. he was so drugged up he left clues everywhere and was caught.

Do you buy all your food fresh and process it yourselves?

I have seen people doing dangerous jobs who were away with the fairies and a danger to everyone around them.

Drugs are my and many others' problem, don't dribble your suburban-living tosh.

 

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9 minutes ago, ssomon said:

 

Flawed response.

More people would drink/use their mobile phones when driving if it were legal.

More people would take drugs and drive as well if they were legal.

Many people who take 'drugs' are not harmless. The couple who broke into our house (we saw them in court) and stole all our valuables (which were never recovered, as they had sold them for a fix or two) were not harmless.

Neither was the one who broke into our shop, stole tools and equipment and peed and shat all over the floor harmless. he was so drugged up he left clues everywhere and was caught.

Do you buy all your food fresh and process it yourselves?

I have seen people doing dangerous jobs who were away with the fairies and a danger to everyone around them.

Drugs are my and many others' problem, don't dribble your suburban-living tosh.

 

How do you know More people would drink/use their mobile phones when driving if it were legal.

How do you know More people would take drugs and drive as well if they were legal.

Your third and forth point could be applied to both drug and non drug users. So that is flawed.

Fifth point, I am a veggie.

Your sixth point, that could apply to anyone of drugs or not.

Lastly, I am not sure what surburban living has got to do with anything. 

I grew it in rural world...and....???

 

 

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19 minutes ago, alittlebitfrench said:

How do you know More people would drink/use their mobile phones when driving if it were legal.

How do you know More people would take drugs and drive as well if they were legal.

Your third and forth point could be applied to both drug and non drug users. So that is flawed.

Fifth point, I am a veggie.

Your sixth point, that could apply to anyone of drugs or not.

Lastly, I am not sure what surburban living has got to do with anything. 

I grew it in rural world...and....???

 

 

Grew what?

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I doubt this will be received well but I have always thought that shifting the emphasis completely on to drug pushers was a huge mistake, in all countries. Prosecution of those using drugs should, in my view be almost as severe as those pushing the stuff. One literally feeds of the other.  The cheaper the drug the more it is used. The more it is used  then the more it is suppled. Making users 'victims' is absolute nonsense. Drug users are responsible fro an awful lot of crime. They aren't victims the poor slobs who are robbed and attacked by these people are.

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On 28/10/2021 at 09:38, alittlebitfrench said:

It is not the supply that is the problem, it is the demand.

You would be amazed how many people take drugs on a daily/hourly basis.

From all walks of society. Everyday jobs. 

 

So the answer to the problem....you legalise it. 

 

 

Ah, the Richard Branson "solution": except all he sees is more profit.

Governments and police authorities have lost control; and prisons are jammed full: thus the easy option would seem to be to legalise what are at present proscribed (i.e. illegal) drugs and substances.

But...

I am going to evaluate this from a UK perspective: other nation states's laws would be similar.

In order for any business to supply drugs, legally, then they must be able to guarantee purity: then they would also have to be licensed by NICE (The National Institute for Clinical Excellence).

The processing company would also have to try and buy indemnity for Manufacturer's Liability: good luck with that!

Which underwriter in their right mind is going to take on the risk that a user could die? Remember, we live in a very litigious society, now. No Win-No Fee would be queuing up.

Moving on, wholesalers would distribute product to retailers: each of the three steps adding on costs.

Naturally, a greedy Chancellor would seek to impose Excise Duty; and on top of retail cost, Excise Duty etc would be VAT @ 20%, or more.

Now let's consider cocaine, since this is the scourge of Europe. The European trade is mainly controlled by the Ndrangheta  crime family, based in Calabria. They are the most vicious and violent of all Italian "Mafia": and the European cocaine trade is worth circa 9 Billion Euros at street value each year. The Ndrangheta  control Milan, a major distribution point.

So naturally, if cocaine (A Class A Drug in the UK) were to be legalised, the Ndrangheta  would give up drugs and open sweetie shops instead!

As with tobacco and booze smugglers, the higher the duties and thus cost, then the more attractive is smuggling.

Clearly, if presently proscribed drugs were legalised, then since the cost would rise, enormously, the illegal dealers would simply carry on as before!

Now I feel very strongly about this: why? Well my lovely niece, a lass who should have made a great success of her life, was drawn into smoking Pot at about 14. You know, Pot, the harmless "Recreational " drug.

Harmless mon cul! I gather the lass smoked skunk which is far stronger. She eventually developed schizophrenia, which progressed, rapidly; she is now a wreck of a human being. having caused her Mum and Dad huge problems and sadness.

Pot smokers often progress to other drugs, for greater highs.

Using drugs is a societal problem and indicative of mental disorder: I become angry when I hear or read the expression "Recreational Drugs": what's next, pray? Recreational rape, murder, whatever? Simply a vapid excuse for aberrational behaviour.

People who take drugs are, IMHO, sociopaths and need serious attention and should be kept away from the rest of society until treatment restores balance: otherwise, past a certain point they are forced to commit crimes to feed their habit; all too often. Users become dealers, too, invariably.

Even if drugs were de-criminalised how would the hopheads buy their fix? At higher prices?

So, I'm with Ken, on this.

 

 

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I don't think the problem will be solved until the root cause is addressed. As long as people feel disaffected and abandoned by society they will turn to drugs as a way to escape, mentally. And as long as people at the top have too much money and too much power and consider themselves untouchable (I am thinking stock market traders and the like who apparently feel their wits are sharper when they are high on cocaine, and I do wonder how many members of HMG get stoned regularly as well) it will carry on. 

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As a kid and young man living in the east end of London many of my friends were on drugs, nothing too serious!!!!! Just black bombers and the like. Some were into hard stuff. As I recall not one of them felt 'disaffected' and abandoned' by society. they would have laughed at such nonsense. In fact, just like today they would have taken advantage of such a 'woke" attitude. They took pills and drugs because they liked it, peer pressure my have helped and as has been said just starting on the mild stuff often leads to the hard stuff.  Disaffected and abandoned!! What a load of woke crap!

It's always someone else fault isn't it! It's always the fault of the rich and of course the government. 

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3 hours ago, Ken said:

 Disaffected and abandoned!! What a load of woke crap!

Did you read all my post, or just the bit that gave you an excuse to get on your hobby horse? I am aware that curious teenagers take drugs (it was speed in my day) and that spoilt rich kids and the international movers and shakers of the world also use drugs, it's part of the lifestyle. I wasn't claiming that City traders and potentially the Johnson chumocracy are disaffected and abandonned by society, exactly. These people aren't the level where the problems are apparent, tjhey're not a social problem as long as they keep it under control. They buy their stuff discreetly, not at street corners where rival gangs fight over whose territory it is. That's where the problems are, in the places where people's lives are so crap that drugs are what they live for and they are easy targets for suppliers. No job, no money, no nice surroundings, no self respect and no respect from anybody else, but drugs make them feel better about it.

Actually I'm very amused that you called me woke, it's the first time anyone has said that about me and probably the last, because I am far from it. I don't particularly want to see lots of money spent on rehabilitating junkies. But culling humans is not allowed, and society needs to rid itself one way or another.

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12 hours ago, anotherbanana said:

I hope that you include the members of all the governments in the UK in that, ET?

I don't think I do. Our Drakeford certainly isn't the type, and I don't think Sturgeon is either  I can't imagine either of them snorting a line through a rolled up £100 note. Johnson and his inner circle, with their Tory donor chums, at their off the record get togethers where backs are scratched and favours are exchanged and suggestions are made and followed up afterwards by self destructing WhatsApp messages, there I can imagine it all too easily. Can't you?

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22 minutes ago, EuroTr@sh said:

Did you read all my post, or just the bit that gave you an excuse to get on your hobby horse? I am aware that curious teenagers take drugs (it was speed in my day) and that spoilt rich kids and the international movers and shakers of the world also use drugs, it's part of the lifestyle. I wasn't claiming that City traders and potentially the Johnson chumocracy are disaffected and abandonned by society, exactly. These people aren't the level where the problems are apparent, tjhey're not a social problem as long as they keep it under control. They buy their stuff discreetly, not at street corners where rival gangs fight over whose territory it is. That's where the problems are, in the places where people's lives are so crap that drugs are what they live for and they are easy targets for suppliers. No job, no money, no nice surroundings, no self respect and no respect from anybody else, but drugs make them feel better about it.

Actually I'm very amused that you called me woke, it's the first time anyone has said that about me and probably the last, because I am far from it. I don't particularly want to see lots of money spent on rehabilitating junkies. But culling humans is not allowed, and society needs to rid itself one way or another.

Yes, I did read it. You wrote it, read what you have written! I doubt market traders 'and the like' feel abandoned by society! So that leaves the the druggies on the streets. I have already said they don't feel abandoned so just what and who, are you talking about? You suggest the root cause is feeling abandoned and disaffected, who then? absolute tosh! You were looking to have a 'pop' at the rich and government. My hobby horse isn't blaming others. I leave that to people like you.

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1 hour ago, Ken said:

Yes, I did read it. You wrote it, read what you have written! I doubt market traders 'and the like' feel abandoned by society! So that leaves the the druggies on the streets. I have already said they don't feel abandoned so just what and who, are you talking about? You suggest the root cause is feeling abandoned and disaffected, who then? absolute tosh! You were looking to have a 'pop' at the rich and government. My hobby horse isn't blaming others. I leave that to people like you.

Well I suppose I have reply but frankly I don't know what you are on about. 

Just so we all agree on what I wrote, it was "I don't think the problem will be solved until the root cause is addressed. As long as people feel disaffected and abandoned by society they will turn to drugs as a way to escape, mentally. And as long as people at the top have too much money and too much power and consider themselves untouchable (I am thinking stock market traders and the like who apparently feel their wits are sharper when they are high on cocaine, and I do wonder how many members of HMG get stoned regularly as well) it will carry on. "

Where am I blaming anybody in particular? I am just saying what seems to me obvious. The root cause is that there is a demand at at all levels of society. All drug users contribute to the problem, visibly or not. The public order problems, drug fuelled crime and drug wars and arrests and rioting etc vislble at the bottom end but the drug trade also thrives because it's also financed by those higher up. You and your mates were contributing to drug dealers' profits when you bought your pills. Pop stars and rich kids contribute big time by spending a fortune on designer drugs, plus they also set a role model that tells impressionable teenagers that using drugs is cool. Both these issues need solving. For people who turn to drugs out of boredom or desperation, it is pretty obvious that the solution is to reduce the boredom and desperation. I don't know how you do that but I see that as the most urgent end to tackle because quite apart from the drug issue, there shouldn't be a layer of society that feels it has nothing to live for. At the other end, people who take drugs because it's trendy and makes them buzz and they can afford it and they feel untouchable because they move in circles where it's accepted and even expected, the solution has to be about changing the attitude. And I have no idea how you do that. 

But, until both those scenarios are changed, I don't see the problem going away. The police will never stamp out the drug trade, for as long as there is still a demand. It is the demand is the root cause.

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Some form of drug seems essential at all levels of society, whether it be heroin, cocaine, pot, pills, alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, TV, gaming et al. You cant put this all down to boredom or deprivation, surely? Perhaps it is there in the human genome or something.

I dont have any answers that are useful but do feel that we have to keep political positions out of it if we are ever going to get on top of it.

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I agree, Wools.

Perhaps one of the most useful disciplines I studied at Management School, all those years ago - sigh -was motivational psychology: I became so intrigued I went on to study Freudian psychology and the works of Jung and Adler, too and so on.

It is pretty inescapable, that humans can and do have addictive personalities, all too often. It can manifest itself in food addiction for example: plus as you say, gambling.

Unfortunately, the Liberal-Left for too many years, have continued to trot out the concept that society ills are due to deprivation, low income, single parent families and so on. Apologism has filtered through into the legal system and lower courts. "It's not his fault he was drunk at the time etc..."

A very useful book to read is "Mind Change", written by Baroness Susan Greenfield, one of the top Neuro-Scientists in the World. It explains and warns why and how people's brains have been re-wired by constant indoctrination by media, advertising and the new technologies. Clearly, a deluge of junk about media darlings and "Celebs" and their life styles, causes both jealousy and a sense of lack of personal worth.

Now, I do accept how and why Thatcher's destruction of the industrial Midlands and North, created sink estates, where there is little hope of meaningful employment and this has led to drugs abuse as a means of emotional escape.

That said and however, acceptance of drugs abuse, is no solution, in the longer term.

 

 

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19 hours ago, EuroTr@sh said:

Well I suppose I have reply but frankly I don't know what you are on about. 

Just so we all agree on what I wrote, it was "I don't think the problem will be solved until the root cause is addressed. As long as people feel disaffected and abandoned by society they will turn to drugs as a way to escape, mentally. And as long as people at the top have too much money and too much power and consider themselves untouchable (I am thinking stock market traders and the like who apparently feel their wits are sharper when they are high on cocaine, and I do wonder how many members of HMG get stoned regularly as well) it will carry on. "

Where am I blaming anybody in particular? I am just saying what seems to me obvious. The root cause is that there is a demand at at all levels of society. All drug users contribute to the problem, visibly or not. The public order problems, drug fuelled crime and drug wars and arrests and rioting etc vislble at the bottom end but the drug trade also thrives because it's also financed by those higher up. You and your mates were contributing to drug dealers' profits when you bought your pills. Pop stars and rich kids contribute big time by spending a fortune on designer drugs, plus they also set a role model that tells impressionable teenagers that using drugs is cool. Both these issues need solving. For people who turn to drugs out of boredom or desperation, it is pretty obvious that the solution is to reduce the boredom and desperation. I don't know how you do that but I see that as the most urgent end to tackle because quite apart from the drug issue, there shouldn't be a layer of society that feels it has nothing to live for. At the other end, people who take drugs because it's trendy and makes them buzz and they can afford it and they feel untouchable because they move in circles where it's accepted and even expected, the solution has to be about changing the attitude. And I have no idea how you do that. 

But, until both those scenarios are changed, I don't see the problem going away. The police will never stamp out the drug trade, for as long as there is still a demand. It is the demand is the root cause.

You can wiggle all you want.  The eternal and childish plaintive cry of innocence! "  Where am I blaming anyone in particular?"  Your first sentence plants drug use on people who are disaffected and abandoned and it is not the case. If that is not what you meant then perhaps you should write more carefully.  Perhaps now you know 'what I'm on about'? Oh and incidentally, suggesting I took drugs is quite insulting. Or was that just another careless example of your writing or an attempt at a snide dig?

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