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Have Not Received TdH


Jon 1
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Sorry to get your hopes up but I managed to persuade them to revalorise the valeur locative.

I was repeatedly told that it could not be done, was impossible etc but I was tenacious, for others that have the same obstacle you could try pointing out that there is actually a box on the detail de calcule for any revaluation.

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[quote user="Chancer"]Sorry to get your hopes up but I managed to persuade them to revalorise the valeur locative.

I was repeatedly told that it could not be done, was impossible etc but I was tenacious, for others that have the same obstacle you could try pointing out that there is actually a box on the detail de calcule for any revaluation.[/quote]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the basis for the revaluation? Something "straightforward" (I mean this in purely relative terms!) like a reduction in habitable area since completeion, or reduction in the number of bathrooms etc? In our case, the "valeur locative brute" is actually about 40% of the open market rent that the apartment would command - though to be honest I am not really sure if there is supposed to be a real link between the value used for TdH and the actual market rent.

Regards

Pickles

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[quote user="meiklejohn"]Anyone have an email adress/contact?

Still haven't received my TdH and I don't think I'll be back at the house until after Christmas.

TdF bill came to the UK but I'm sure this is no guarantee TdH bill will as well.[/quote]

Should be in the top right hand box on the first page of bill (Last year's or the TF bill)

Look for 'mél'

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A bit of a long answer Pickles, it went up 3 fold after they persuaded me at the Hôtel des Impôts that it would go down if I filled out a H1 form as I had been paying the taxes on a commercial basis, pretty crap advice as I now know that businesses pay next to eff all if they declare most of the superficie to the business and the minimum as their accomodation.

I kept returning to whinge and basically became a thorn in the guys rear end, he finally just printed out a note saying "il faut reduire la valeur locative de 4/5" and told me to take it to the taxe d'habitation office, all that time I thought that he was the d'habitation guy!!!

They simply created a fiche de visite saying the same and added "vu avec le centre des impots fonçiers", after so many visits I could not believe my luck and beat a hasty retreat. I mean could it really be that simple!!!

The next year it had gone back up once again so I went back again repeatedly every Friday afternoon when they wanted to knock off and always spoke like une vache espagnole, the guy said he could not possibly reduce it and in any case he had no right to have done so the year before but I remained stubborn, you did it once, nothing has changed, you will do it again........... S.V.P.

Eventually I was passed on to his boss, the chef de la division and explained to her that I had converted 37m2 in which I lived, the remaining 250m2 was not only uninhabitable but unacessible as I had removed the staircases (which had not in fact been done at that stage) and had to hoist myself up with a winch and a bosuns chair to access the upper floors, I also produced the bosuns chair as I find confusion and broken French is a very good combination for creating confusion, in short they just wanted rid of me.

I now pay for 37m2 at category 6, which I think is vetuste, the tax d'habitation reduced by 63% and the fonçiere by 9%.

It seems that you pay pretty much the full whack for owning a building even if it is not habitable but the taxe d'habitation can come down considerably if it is overassessed, but beware most properties are in fact undervalued. 

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Thanks for the explanation - persistance (or pestilence!) pays! Our valeur locative brute for a 35-year-old flat is pretty much the same as that of a brand-new flat of the same floor area in the same area, but I suspect that, as you suggest, if we pushed it, we'd find that ours would go up rather than down!

Regards

Pickles

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You are a star C.[:)]

After an increase in TF in 2011, I obtained a dégrevement of € 113.

Quote from fiche de visite:

Objet de la demande:

          Mr you know who I am conteste l'evaluation de sa maison.

          1) chambres mansardées surface declaré est la surface au sol.

          2) Etat d'entretien est mediocre est non assez bon   murs trés humides   toiture à revoir....

          Pieces jointes:

                               Nouvelle declaration H1 deposé ce jour.

The poxy maire had changed etat from vétuste to assez bon without me being informed.

I am plotting his come-uppance!!![:D]

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It amazes me that it only seems to be us immigrants who challenge these things, on a Tv programme they showed a retired guy who had faught and won against his valeur locative on the grounds that his flat was now in a much poorer state then when the valeur was calculated 30 years ago and much worse than the new build flats around him with the same valeur locatives, it took him several years and they did the usual camera shot of him showing his dossier so high that it was toppling off the table, he only won back €100 or so but they were treating him like some kind of folk hero who had achieved the impossible.

Compare that to one visit from Pachapapa, more in my case but only one visit to actually achieve the result, the others wore them down, it seems either the French just accept their lot or prefer to challenge it in the longest possible way generating a massive pile of paper to show on camera.

PPP I cannot find a reference to explain the categories used for the co-efficient of vétusteté, do you have one?

With that and the other info I have gleaned I can at least forecast how much i will be paying once the works are completed and/or they catch up with me.

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[quote user="pachapapa"]

You are a star C.[:)]

After an increase in TF in 2011, I obtained a dégrevement of € 113.

Quote from fiche de visite:

Objet de la demande:

          Mr you know who I am conteste l'evaluation de sa maison.

          1) chambres mansardées surface declaré est la surface au sol.

          2) Etat d'entretien est mediocre est non assez bon   murs trés humides   toiture à revoir....

          Pieces jointes:

                               Nouvelle declaration H1 deposé ce jour.

The poxy maire had changed etat from vétuste to assez bon without me being informed.

I am plotting his come-uppance!!![:D]

[/quote]

Someone changed Condition of house from passable to good...(how can they do this when they cant see inside,just the outside) got a reduction of 40 euros so worth questioning
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Hi C link gives the H1 formulaire the "etat d'entretien" comes in 5 categories, in fact there is no vétuste but the lowest category is "mauvais".

Check on page 3 at Section 43 sub-section C.

The H1 is a public document and one can demand to see it at the  hôtel des impôts; there is also a standard calculation sheet used by the foncs which gives further details; there are doubts that the sheet is a public document  so there may be some reticence to show it.

There is no doubt that there has been a general tightening up and revision of valeurs locative; previously I paid around € 64 per year from the year 1997 so I cant complain about the past. However a jump to € 264 in one year was not acceptable.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168/fichedescriptiveformulaire_3168.pdf

 

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Yes they are very cagy and protective and field each enquiry with "fill out an H1" happy in the knowledge that in most cases it will result in an increase rather than a decrease.

I had gone in to avoid filling out an H1 following a declaration préalable which did not increase the habitable area, I was pretty sure that it had been undedeclared, the woman tried to convince me, and sadly succeeded that I was paying too much with the buiding declared as commercial, I asked her how much and she said she could do a simulation after she had the details from the new H1, muggins here fell for it.

When she showed me the simulation I said well we will just carry on as before, she said no, you cant retract an H1, I made a grab for it but she moved surprisingly fast for a fonc [:(]

That was the beginning of my war but it actually took 18 months before the taxes increased and the battle commenced in earnest.

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Can someone please give a link to an H1 form so that I can have an idea of what goes into it and what sort of works will need to be declared.

Not planning anything now but have one or two small projects in mind that WON'T increase the living area but will be visible if anyone looks from the fields behind the house.

Don't plan to do anything that will increase the TF or TH bills as they are already on the large side.

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