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[quote user="Jonzjob"]If I were to reply to that statement I would be chucked off of the forum ! It's totally moronic!

[/quote]

Has the glow worm fallen out jon, come on lighten up, ( see what I did there [:)]) And to be quite truthful it's not moronic, just an honest observation.

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Oh dear Jonzjob,

I never said that birds never fly into the blades. I said that there are not masses of bodies at the bottom. Birds fly into my windows - sometimes with the same devastating effect.

As for the turbine self destructing, I agree that it is somewhat disturbing - as indeed were the early incidents of the generators catching fire. However these can be put down to poor design of early turbines or mechanical failure (as per the video). Cars, lorries and buses can suffer from mechanical failure and the consequences can be just a dire as the potential consequences of a turbine failure.

My question to you is, If not turbines, what do you find acceptable and sufficiently safe to individuals and the environment?
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That was an eagle that got zapped there Nick and I can't just take that lightly. Not just one, but how many were missed to get that one on video?

you can have your windmills Nick and I realise that I ain't going to change your mind. Just look at the problems to wildlife and the health of the people who have them stuck up in their locality?

I was at a friends place at a party and got talking to a bloke I didn't know. I asked him what he did and his job was checking the locality of where these things were planned to be. He was checking to see if there were any epileptic type suffers living with the locality, because if there were then the turbines would not be allowed. The induce fits in the suffers.

Sorry Nick, but I can't take these things lightly.

Also, they do ice up and a kilo of ice would be not a lot to one of them. At about 200 mph on the huge blade length that could be thrown a very long way! It would not make a lot of difference to the balance either as it is such a huge mass anyway.

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200mph?

 

You wont find many 90m dia turbines in France let alone turning at 19 RPM; offshore maybe but never at the maximum rated RPM any more than the tyres on your vehicle are going to run at 300mph.

 

I think Wind turbines are a really good idea, I'm not convinced that the way they are currently financed is helping many but the manufacturing and installation companies but future générations should benefit.

 

This fooking computer which on I absolutely have not enabled auto spellcheck is gradually becoming more and more intrusive capitalising Wind and Under and now ptting accents in générations but not generation, what the fook is going on? The language is set for French so I understand a lot of the red squiggly underlining but it absolutely is not set to auto-correct, it drives ma mad having to go back and remove capital letters and I need a magnifying glass to find the accents its throws in.

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Andy, I have no idea what would be the best proposition apart from the reduction of the use of electricity? But I don't think that the turbines are the answer. They are bad for people and if you wnat any in your area then read this, from a retired Danish High Court judge. Denmark is one of the highest turbine users, but for how long before the wool over eyes is removed?

I am under the impression that some will not change there opinion, but neither will I. From now I will  attempt not try to change opinion, but please don't try to change mine either, you won't manage it!

One of the richest blokes in the U.K. started by flogging these things. I have met him and I wouldn't buy a new car from him never mind a second hand one even if he sold them..

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"200mph?

You wont find many 90m dia turbines in France let alone turning at 19

RPM; offshore maybe but never at the maximum rated RPM any more than

the tyres on your vehicle are going to run at 300mph."

"The blades are approximately 75.5 meters in length each making approx. .... At 12 rpm, the tips of those blades are doing close to 260 ft/second or about 176 mph."

On a 6 mw turbine. Well, 6 mw when there is a suitable wind blowing and it isn't either gusting too much or veering to many degrees?

Working on the principle that you can take a horse to water but you can't make it wash I going to try to dip out of this thread if I can.

But as a parting phrase. I used to run a Citroën Diane for a couple of years and I had a sticker on the back, as all 2CV/Diane drivers do, the read "Atoms for energy". Make of that what you will.

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OK lets pretend that I've been convinced by jon about the awful affects of Wind Turbines, and I now think they are a menace to society. Can we start a group to ban cars and buses, as a hedgehog got run over yesterday in our village, also trains; as someone crashed into one on a crossing, oh and airplanes because of bird strikes. Lets also get rid of electricity pylons because of the rays they emit. Jon you can trawl the internet and find anything you need to back up any agenda that you have, but common sense must prevail for what is beneficial for the majority. I'm sure that your comment that you drove a 2CV says that you didn't worry about mankind or bird kind then,  do you drive a car now? Of course you do.

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  • 1 month later...
As a person who is interested in how public money is spent on expensive and inefficient toys, as well as in the interests of honesty and freedom of information, the facts below may help in arriving at a sensible decision, never mind what your Dutch neighbours may believe :

Wind turbines must have instant back-up available for when they cease generating electricity.

Wind turbines are very expensive.

Wind turbine life is limited.

Those who rent out the land for wind turbines often make massive profits.

Wind turbines kill birds.

Wind turbines, like any mechanical object, break down, sometime they destroy themselves in a spectacular fashion (see below and check some staggering videos on line).

Wind turbines do make noise and no data are available on long-term effect on those living nearby, such as infants and small children, about whom I care.

Not all wind turbines make money, some cost a fortune. Go here if you want some interesting facts : https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/how-many-others-are-there/

(£48,000 wind turbine at the Welsh Govt offices was only generating about £5 worth of electricity a month). Is this the Welsh idea of a bargain Was ?

and

http://www.dover-express.co.uk/Dover-District-Council-s-wind-turbine-fails/story-18011308-detail/story.html

“The much-trumpeted £90,000 wind turbine installed outside the council offices has generated just a tenth of the energy it should have done”.

and

http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/council-blew-cash-on-wind-turbines-that-don-t-work-1-6062264 - it generated £3.67 worth of electricity in nine years, not my idea of efficiency, but it does look so beautiful, does it not ?

and

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Spondon-s-idle-wind-turbines-waste-flop/story-21462262-detail/story.html

Residents (read ratepayers) are “appalled” because two controversial wind turbines in Spondon are still [July 15, 2014] not producing energy regularly. The 130-metre structures, in Megaloughton Lane, are not working because of issues with the radar system at East Midlands Airport.

Wind turbines are not safe :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/10285964/Wind-turbine-destroyed-by-wind.html

Two blades were ripped from the 18m high turbine in the Scottish Highlands and thrown up to 60 yards away after it was hit by 40mph gales. A third was left badly buckled.

What worries me is that gusts of up to 101 mph are forecast for my area this pm and later, but I don’t live near one of these beasts.

Wind turbines are dangerous, go here (if you dare) and wear protective clothing - please :

https://www.google.fr/search?q=exploding+wind+turbines&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=635&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ZG2pVPWkMMmQyASL6ICgAw&ved=0CB0QsAQ&g

The Wind Industry Knows No Shame: Turbines to Desecrate the Unknown Graves of Thousands of Australian Soldiers in France

http://stopthesethings.com/2015/03/30/the-wind-industry-knows-no-shame-turbines-to-desecrate-the-unknown-graves-of-thousands-of-australian-soldiers-in-france/

All the above are facts, against a fact, there is, of course, no argument.

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Re : !What worries me is that gusts of up to 101 mph are forecast for my area this pm and later, but I don’t live near one of these beasts. "

Lest there be panic afoot, I do not refer to today's weather.

Phew ! Thanks for that !
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One can of course always present one sided arguments.

I will say at this stage that wind turbines will never provide a complete solution to power requirements until we can share electricity supplies across the globe - in all practical senses then, never.

Ernie wrote:

As a person who is interested in how public money is spent on expensive and inefficient toys, as well as in the interests of honesty and freedom of information, the facts below may help in arriving at a sensible decision, never mind what your Dutch neighbours may believe :

Wind turbines must have instant back-up available for when they cease generating electricity.

Unquote

As do coal, oil and nuclear stations. All power stations can break down, they need to shut down for maintenance, cleaning or upgrading. Hydro plants run out of water, coal stations can be subject to strikes, etc.

Ernie wrote:

Wind turbines are very expensive.

Wind turbine life is limited.

unquote

Ever tried building a nuclear station? If you think a turbine is expensive, ask EDF why the new Hinckley station is taking so long to get funding and get started - even with 18b from the Chinese.

The closest you will get to power stations with infinite life may well be hydro stations - but if you really believe these will last forever, then my friend we are living in different universes. Most (possibly all) of the nuclear power units installed in the 70s and 80s are now decommissioned. The western world has largely shut its coal fired stations as too polluting, too inefficient and too costly.

Ernie wrote:

Those who rent out the land for wind turbines often make massive profits.

Unquote

And we are now damning people who have an opportunity to make a crust from their investments?

Ernie wrote:

Wind turbines kill birds.

Unquote

And what about other forms of energy? Do these kill birds or worse kill people? Chernobyl springs to mind as an obvious killer in the nuclear world. The Stanley pit disaster (and many similar more modern Chinese cases) can be laid at the doors of coal fired stations. As for oil, anyone remember Torry Canyon - probably killed more sea birds than every turbine in France now and planned.

Piper Alpha? Aberfan? The list of disasters that follow our "need" for energy is almost endless.

Ernie wrote

Wind turbines, like any mechanical object, break down, sometime they destroy themselves in a spectacular fashion (see below and check some staggering videos on line).

Unquote

At least a degree of objectivity, other forms of generation also break and sometimes unpleasantly - Chernobyl, Three Mile Island to name two cases of the consequences of our drive for more and more power.

Ernie wrote

Wind turbines do make noise and no data are available on long-term effect on those living nearby, such as infants and small children, about whom I care.

Unquote

If you have ever lived near a coal fired station, you would know that the constant noise and disruption of coal delivery and ash removal makes these facilities continuously noisy.

Like Jonzjob, I do not have an ideal answer. No current form of power generation is without its negatives, and some have potentially very long lasting negatives.

I am therefore of the belief that a plurality of power generation is probably the least harmful solution at present; and within that plurality comes wind power.

For those who would object to turbines, then the options are to install an alternative close to you - we could build a nuclear station just down the road, or how about a coal fired station with a constant stream of lorries or trains bringing coal and taking away the by-products, we could build a dam and flood the valley leaving your house under 20m of water. If none of those are convenient we could of course just take you and your likes off-line and leave you with no power supply at all. The reduced power requirement might mean we do not need new power sources. Some it seems are happy to use the resource of power, but not happy to live with the consequence - that has to be for others to bear.

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People that think nuclear is the answer conveniently diregard the risks involved.  The most recent incident at Fukushima in Japan has ended up polluting most of the north Pacific and radioactive fish are being caught off the west coast of America.  Mainstream media have dropped this issue in favour of Islamic terrorists, Trump, and whichever celeb has the biggest boobs this week.   Of course its not just when things go wrong that the risks are there.  How about the road and rail transport of fuel rods to the sites and the road and rail transport of spent fuel to where it is processed (in Cumbria) and then to where it is buried?  Dozens of opportunities for environmental disasters of epic proportion.  Then when a site is decommissioned you can't go near it for up to 100 years.  As mentioned above, the answer may lie in a combination of methods, including solar.  Or will the poor birds fly into the panels and kill themselves?  If we continue to use more and more energy then it has to come from somewhere.  If you affluent lot must have your holidays abroad using cheap flights in aircraft that burn fossil fuel by the ton then you will just have to grin and bear the guilt.

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