Tax Form 2047

[CeeJay]

This year (for 2011 return) will be the second year that I have completed these forms. Last year I completed Forms 2042 and 2047 including Form 3196 for bank declarations, for 2010, which were all downloaded.

I have been sent this year only Form 2042K which is practically identical to Form 2042, however I am concerned that Form 2047 was not included. Is this normal and do I have to download this Form every year to complete. Surely from last years return it would be obvious that there is a potential for my earnings i.e. pension to be sourced from abroad and therefore the additional Form should have been sent?

Actually I have been unable to download Form 2047 from Claire's guide so do I have to request it be sent from the Tax Office?

[NormanH]

If this is the second year you can declare online avoiding the need for forms.

At one point you have to choose which forms you wish to fill in.

If you want to do it on paper I have always had to ask  them to send the 2047 despite the fact that I always need one. They don't do it automatically for me, although they may for others. I am of course in the same area as you.

[CeeJay]

Norman

Thanks for that but is it possible also to complete Form 2047 on line in addition to 2042......... I guess the answer to that is obviously no. Also I cannot find any way to download the Form as I did last year. Presumably then this will be ongoing as Form 2047 is the only means to declare that having entered France with an S1 I do not have to pay social charges?

[Graham & Brenda]

My forms always come separately. The red ones came yesterday & I await the blue ones.

[Hereford]

We have filled in our forms online for several years and yes you can do both the basic one and the "red" one.  What does not work is the simulation as the computer cannot work it out! 

We always get forms by post even though we file online and they do indeed always come in separate envelopes on different days.

Mrs H

[NormanH]

I confirm what Hereford says. Yes you can fill in both parts on line. You just have to choose the two forms correctly, but both are available.

If the 2047 doesn't come soon, and you still want to declare on paper, why not just email the tax office with a request.

[Sunday Driver]

Downloadable version of 2047:

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_7545/fichedescriptiveformulaire_7545.pdf

Notice for 2047:

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_7546/fichedescriptiveformulaire_7546.pdf

 

 

[Dave&Olive]

Hi ok

              Same old different Tax offices ..They have sent us the 2047-k form but no  2042 ??

                                  got a link SD

                                   Dave

 

[CeeJay]

Thanks for the replies one and all.

Perhaps I was a bit previous in posting because this morning I did indeed receive the relevant Form 2047 in the post. Good to know that one can opt for either the printed versions or online for both. Perhaps next year I will be more prepared!!

[cooperlola]

Like Graham & Brenda,  we always get our separately.  They can arrive as much as two weeks apart around here!  Panic ye not.

[Keni]

This morning we received our pack - with forms 2042K and 2042CK, with 2041-NK (notes?). This being our second year, do we have to fill in the 'red one' as well?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Keni"]This morning we received our pack - with forms 2042K and 2042CK, with 2041-NK (notes?). This being our second year, do we have to fill in the 'red one' as well?[/quote]If you mean 2047 then yes.  Plus the one with the foreign bank account list on it, if applicable (I forget its number.)

[Keni]

Thank you Coops, I'm sure someone will be along soon to verify the number of said form - but did not have one last year, is this because of the new double tax treaty being ratified?

[NormanH]

The 2047 (which is pink)  is for foreign income, so if you have any , e.g  from the UK, you should have one and  fill it in.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Keni"]did not have one last year, is this because of the new double tax treaty being ratified?[/quote]No, you should have had one last year too (I seem to recall you have a UK occupational pension as I do, Keni, or your o/h does?)

[parsnips]

Hi,

      I received forms 2047 today,(not yet 2042), and I note that they have not been revised to agree with the "new" treaty.  There was also no note advising that the instructions on the 2047 notice (which STILL does not show the UK as one of the countries now under the "credit d'impot" system) should be ignored and exempt income entered in 2047 sec VI and carried over to 2042 8TK. 

       I therefore expect that the same chaos as last year will be repeated, especially for new declarers ,as, if they concienciously follow the notice they will complete, as in the past , VII and 8TI.

       As I know of at least one person who is still working through the appeals system to try to recoup social charges wrongly taken from his UK rents last year, it will be interesting to see how he is treated this year.

[NormanH]

I have now received both in separate envelopes (but in the same post) for the first time ever, together with a very full 'notice', also for the first time, which explains exactly the system parsnips told us about last year. Last year I had no such notice and the forms were exactly the same as before so I did as I have always done, although I completely understood and believed what parsnips was saying. I proceeded on the principle that I would do as I had been  told, until told officially to do other wise.  At the same time I fully expected the changes to be in operation this year.

This year my dilemma is a little different. I have now been made aware that there is a system for 'crédit d'impôt' in some countries, but mine the UK (Royaume Uni) isn't on the list on the official 'notice'.

Should I be intelligent, and declare as the convention  states, or should I be blindly obedient, and assume that as the UK isn't on the list issued by the French Tax authorities  I continue as before?

It's a little more than a moot point, since calculated the old way I have usually escaped paying tax in France, and thus paying taxe d'habitation. Calculated in the new way I would pay a small amount of tax, but enough to lift me into the bracket of those who pay the taxe d'habitation, which is well over 750€

 This I suspect will be the case for many British people on relatively low incomes in France who have been declaring under the old system up to now.

I stress that the extra charges are not the reason I ask the question.  If I should pay them I will, to sleep with a clear conscience. I don't want to face a claim for back taxes in a couple of years that I cant pay.

My question above is quite genuine. If I were in the UK I would tend towards being intelligent and filling the form in the new way although I haven't been told to.

But I am in France, and blind obedience has seen me through a number of clashes with authority[:P]

[parsnips]

Hi Norman,

     That's my point - they have now had since June 2008 to get this sorted , either by reprinting the notice , or producing an addendum, and they have done nothing (and in some cases worse than nothing -local offices issuing erroneous instructions);  I shall do it by the "new" method, as it worked last year, but to expect everyone to be famiiliar with the intricacies of the treaty is a bit much.

[Keni]

Last year we filled in pink form 2047 and blue 2042.

This year we have received blue form 2042K, 2042CK and  2041-NK (Notice a vous aider à remplir 2011). No sign though of pink 2042, although my neighbour received his last week. Going by the 2041-CK it looks as though they might have everything together over here.

[Wilko]

Hi............We have lived here since 2003 and for the first time received 2 of 2047-K and 1 of 2047 NOT-K. My accountant asked me years ago what monies I received from the UK, not very much in fact. We have a SARL and a SCI and the UK income has been declared via these 2 companies along with our OAPs, which we receive in France anyway. . I took the forms to the accountant and he said we wait till the blue one arrives. Having had a quick look through the forms does one have to declare one's UK bank account details ? Is there any advice you learned people can give as to how best to make life easier in this situation. I only ask because we are still in the midst of a 6 year battle with the Societe des Incompetents (RSI) and I could do without bureaucratic attack on yet another front.Thanks for any words of wisdom.

Regards

Wilko

[parsnips]

Hi,

      I leave your SARL and SCI issues to your accountant, but you are required to enter on (blue) form 2042 at box 8UU the bank  name and account numbers of any foreign bank accounts opened , used or closed during the tax year. You are not required to declare the amounts held, but are required on (pink) 2047 page 2 and (blue) 2042 2TS , any bank interest from foreign accounts.

       On 2042 8TT you are required to declare  company name, policy number, and date of commencement for any foreign insurance products you hold.  

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="parsnips"]

.....you are required to enter on (blue) form 2042 at box 8UU the bank  name and account numbers of any foreign bank accounts opened , used or closed during the tax year.

[/quote]

Box 8UU is a bit small for entering all that information......[;-)]

 

 

[parsnips]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="parsnips"]

.....you are required to enter on (blue) form 2042 at box 8UU the bank  name and account numbers of any foreign bank accounts opened , used or closed during the tax year.

[/quote]

Box 8UU is a bit small for entering all that information......[;-)]

 

 

[/quote]

Hi,

     Sorry! Should have said add paper with details.

[Wilko]

Thanks for that Parsnips

W