Jump to content

Hourly rates for cleaning/garden maintenance/gite changeovers


Recommended Posts

Good afternoon folks,

 

I hope that you don’t mind me picking your brains (there is an awful lot of collective brain power on this site), but I’m interested in what the average hourly going rates are in the SW for cleaning/garden maintenance/ gite changeovers (esp 46/24)

 

Any advice would be very gratefully received.

 

THANKS in advance,

Carly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think from previous discussions something like 25€-30€ per hour or more seems to be the minimum that a properly registered business can charge. The lower figure for just labour, the higher end if equipment needs to be supplied, as with garden maintenance.

Of course, if you are looking at work 'au noir' it is a different story, but we could not possibly comment on that here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Will the Conqueror"]

I think from previous discussions something like 25€-30€ per hour or more seems to be the minimum that a properly registered business can charge. [/quote]

Quoi??????   The ADMR pay their workers the minimum wage (just over 8 euros an hour) for cleaning.  And looking after old people.   I guess old people aren't worth as much as gites and gardens!  [:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is the cost of the running a business too that Will the C included Saligo. If this was just several hours a week at least some of these tasks could be covered on the Cheque emploi scheme.And that would be the SMIC wouldn't it which as you said is just over 8€ an hour.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do this and charge a minimum of 15 euros per hour but extra for laundry and travel expenses but our changeover charges usually work out at roughly 10 per cent of the rental charge.

Grass cutting charges go up if ride on mower is used.

Minimum hourly rates may have to increase this year when we hear what our cotisations this year will be!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, on the basis of a third for cotisations, a third for taxes and other charges/overheads and a third for you, which was the conclusion of a recent discussion here on this subject, if you pay yourself the minimum wage it works out just a shade under 25€ per hour. I think zeb is undercharging a bit.

Of course if you were employed and paid the SMIC you would actually get rather less than this as the employee's cotisations have to come out of it, then tax in the following year. So 15€ could be a bit closer, though it still sounds a bit cheap to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My garden got badly overgrown last year and I asked the local estate agent to recommend a local gardener. He strimmed it for me and burnt the grass in the corner of the garden- no problem there. He charged me 280 euro's for a day - I nearly died. even allowing for the cost of his strimmer it seemed steep. 35 Euro's an hour. Unfortunately I was back in England when he did it and I foolishly didn't ask for a quote.

I won't be using him again !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Teamedup"]So he will have actually got around £10-£12  an hour for himself, is that a lot?[/quote]

So allowing for at most a gallon of 2/4 stroke at let's say 10.00 euros to be on the over-conservative price, Lets say 50 euro's for hire/wear and cord on his strimmer, again over estimated. that leaves 220.00 Euros for  8 Hrs labour only

220 for 8 hrs = more than 27 Euro's an hour for labour only,  no travel ( he only lived about 100yards from the house)  nearer £18.00 - £19.00 an hour. for basic gardening services. Yes I would say this is expensive.

The last time it happened I strimmed it myself and it took me  about a litre of 2 stroke and 4 hrs, including raking, piling it up and burning it.

If you can explain a different breakdown scenario to me I'd appreciate it. I'm fairly new to France and the French ways!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Smiley that this is pretty expensive. Even if TU's calculations are correct then I still think that this is dear. If you were to clear £10 to £12 an hour in the UK you would have to be paid around £17/18 gross per hour.This would come in at £595 per week for a 35 hour week or nearly £30,000 pa for a 50 week year. I think most jobbing gardeners in the UK would think they were doing pretty well on that. Even people with high level horticultural qualifications wouldn't expect to be paid that much. Perhaps you hired the French Alan Titchmarsh!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rule of thumb in France is that whatever an artisan charges about half goes to the government and on insurance etc and that is why things look very expensive. The person would have income tax to pay on that £12  an hour too and gardening being the job it is, the weather will obviously mean that they cannot work every week of the year.

Although I know that this isn't right for the first year for people working for many companies in France, as they still have the year 'in hand' system, usually people have lots of holidays and days off in France. Apart from that first year no one only does a 50 week year.

I don't know of one artisan that is really well off and do not live the lives of people earning lots of money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But WillC's calculation worked out at £10/12 per hour for himself ie. nett and this was what I thought was high. Obviously if he earned £10/12 gross he would not be doing that well, although he would still clear around the minimum wage(gross) in the UK ,which would then have tax and NI taken off. Whichever way you cut it it seems a lot of money for unskilled, casual work away from a city.  Just because conditions only allow you to work half the time (say) does that justify you in charging twice what the work is worth?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is becoming very confused. It might be better not to try and make comparisons with the UK as the system is very different there.

WillC has already given a simple and clear explanation (and he wasn't the one who mentioned anything about £12 per hour). As he stated, if you employ a registered tradesman (whether categorised as an "artisan" or not) He or she will be likely to see not more than around a third of the amount charged go into his or her own pocket  and possibly much less.

Unlike in the UK, high minimum social charges are payable even if you have a very low income. Let's take an  example of someone, maybe a gardener or similar, who charges his time out at  25€ per hour  and manages to work for 1000 chargeable hours per year.

This means he will have revenue of 25000€ per year.

Of this amount, around 8000€ will be paid out in social charges, tax and health top up insurance etc.

Another 1000€ will go on insurance (much more for an artisan)

Vehicle running costs for the business will be around 4000€

Equipment renewals, repairs and running costs will probably be around  2000€

Misc; business costs such as satationery, computer, internet connection, telephone,mobile etc. another 1000€

Accountancy costs, bank charges etc. another 1000€

That all means that, after all these costs are taken into account, our man has earnt around 8000€ for himself.

Now, although he has worked for 1000 chargeable hours, if we take into account admin time, time visiting prospective customers and preparing quotes, time spent travelling etc. this is likely to account for another 500 hours in the year.

So, if he works for 1500 hours in a year for a total of 8000€ that works out at just over 5,30€ per hour take home pay.

I hope that this example will help many of you understand that when you are quoted 25€ per hour by a tradesman, far from being ripped off, you are actually getting a very good deal !

Incidentally, how many of you have ever taken your car to a main dealer in the UK for a service ?  If so, have you ever asked what hourly rate their customer friendly fixed price servicing costs are based upon?  If you had, and you were told the truth, you would find that the hourly chargeable rate for a qualified mechanic is somewhere around £150 per hour.  In practice, few people ever realise this fact and happily pay the going fixed rate for a service and are none the wiser. The charge can, of course, be justified when taking overheads into account but it makes you realise what good value many other services are.

 

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think the point is being missed I said I thought it was expensive at 35 euros an hr Every body seems to agree that the going rate is 25-30 euros an hr therefore 35p/h is expensive.

As I said he was a local villager, as I do not know him and as I did not pick him and have yet to receive a proper receipt, I don't even know if he's registered.

On the plus side my mum  stayed at my house at about the same time and could not get the gas boiler ignited. The same estate agent called a gas engineer and he attended the same day, found that she had turned the gas valve to off instead of on and re-lit it. I think he felt sorry for her and would accept no other payment than a good bottle of wine. So please don't think I am trying to slate French Artisans, some are good some are not so good, no different to anywhere else.

The estate agent has been fantastically patient the whole time and I guess, thinking about it, maybe some of the gardeners charge may have been a bit of commission for the agent, if this is the case, again I wouldn't mind, he has put a few unpaid hrs in for me. Try getting a UK estate agent to that!!

I have to say on the whole I have  met considerably far more good people than bad.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very big thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply to my question. I think that we reached a consensus. The reason that I ask is that I am thinking of offering a domestic cleaning service in this area (there seems to be an un-met demand), and I wanted to ascertain what would be a reasonable rate to charge. I don't expect to make much of a living (before you say it!) - but I am an odd fish that actually thoroughly enjoys cleaning and figure that this would be a good way to get to know people.

My experience is similar to yours, Smiley: since we have lived here we have encountered a couple of workmen that have tried it on, but the positive experiences vastly outweigh the negative.

THANKS AGAIN,

Carly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smiley, Try getting a french estate agent to do that in most of France, simply they do not, as their function is no more than a UK estate agents.

And you could be right, the estate agent may well get a commission from the gardener. There always seems an awful lot of comments on here about how much people are charged. Anyone working legally has a lot of expense whether they are working or not and I truthfully do not know of one artisan who is really well off through work and those I know do work hard and always have full order books. Ask Punch or Val2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know Teamedup, I struck gold with him. Like I said, I've met more good than bad. I agree that you don't see many wealthy Artisans and in my area there is severe unemployment due to the textile mills shutting down etc.

I can understand them trying to get as much as possible to spread accross their bad days, but like everyone else I don't want to be one of the ones paying heavily for it !!!![:O]

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eslier

Sorry if you thought I took the thread off track by comparisons with England; it was helpful to me, but perhaps not relevant. You're right about what a garage would charge you but we're assuming that their mechanics are skilled people, whereas the grass cutter we were discussing was not a qualified gardener doing skilled work. The biggest point that I would take contention with ( and I'm sure I'll get shot down in  flames by all the self-employed people on here) is the question of expenses. Using your example, taxes, social charges etc take off about a third of the pay (rather as in the UK-oops did it again!). However,if someone asks me what I earn, I don't knock off my travelling costs,union/professional subscriptions, work related clothing, mobile phone/ internet charges (necessary to keep up to date) etc that are necessary for me to do my job efficiently before I quote my salary. Neither do I count my travelling to work time, my necessary reading and my planning time outside work hours, as something I expect to get paid an hourly rate for. Yes, some people may own diggers and other expensive equipment that can be charged extra for (otherwise the client would have to pay extra to hire these) but many artisans would not be looking at those expenses.Unfortunately if there is only enough work for you to do part time,(and your example of 1000 hours per year works out at about 21 hours per week over a 45 week year)you shouldn't expect your clients to have to foot the difference. I know that people running a business have expenses to enable them to do their job, but so do employed people and we have to pay these out of taxed income, whether in England or in France.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are talking about France here, where many skilled (or even what would count as 'professional' people in Britain) people get the minimum wage, or very slightly more - there are big financial disincentives for employers to paying more than the minimum wage. Salaried people in France still have the same costs you quote, which as a proportion of their salaries are somewhat greater in France, the salaries being generally lower. But the big difference is the amount of cotisations etc paid by an employer, which is something around 40% again on top of the basic wage. The employee also has corresponding deductions covering things like health, retirement, insurances, which add up to just over 20% - this is all before tax, so workers are lucky to have two thirds left after the tax has been paid - there is no PAYE in France. The self employed have, in effect, to pay both the employer and employee contributions so with most businesses, by the time self-employed people have paid tax, cotisations and the various other overheads like premises, heating, lighting, stationery, etc (that employees have provided for them), they are lucky to be left with about 30% of what they charge.

I mention this to demonstrate that comparisons between Britain and France, or between employees and self-employed, merely colour the issue. I still maintain that if one charges 25€ per hour, one can expect to actually get about 8€ or less of that as a 'wage' if working legally. No wonder France has such a thriving black economy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...